8-16. I hold AdTh in the BB. 4off 2off and cutoff limp and button raises. Button is overly aggressive pre-flop.

I call, and now 4off 3-bets. 2off, cutoff, button and I call in the BB.

Flop AsTh5s.

1) Bet out or go for a check raise?

I bet with 4off and cutoff calling.

Turn comes 2c. I bet, 4off calls and cutoff raises. He's super loose and stuck four racks. He can be aggressive but not generally tricky aggressive.

2) Do you call or 3-bet?

I 3-bet, 4off folds and cutoff four bets it.

I call and river comes 5c.

He bets and I call getting 22/1 odds.

3) Is anyone good enough to fold here?

1) check raise the flop to try to face the field with two cold. Yay if they fold, yay if they make a bad call with two bets instead of 1. In this situation I only bet out with set or more or monster draw, I'd put top two on a drawy ultra multi way flop in the category of vulnerable made hands so try to get some fold equity.

2) If the player tends to be passive I just call but there are definitely LAGs I've 3bet in similar situations recently, like two weeks ago so I think this is fine.

3) Folding for one more in this massive pot would be really bad so the question "is anyone good enough to fold here" doesn't make much sense. People give me guff on here for being judgemental but here it goes: players agonizing over calling one bet to showdown in a big pot is some of the dumbest stuff I see in live limit hold'em. I'll make a mubsy fold facing two cold on the turn, but one more to go on the river with a massive pot I'm calling all day.

Thanks Dr. I asked a few players I respect about this hand and one was adamant on the check raise and the other was on the fence but leaning towards check raise.

Their attitude was where do you think you can elicit more pressure. And based on player tendency, if you think the limp/3-bettor will raise you then bet into him.

If you think the button will bet then go for the check raise.

My attitude in betting out was flush draws aren't going anywhere whether you check raise or bet out and if it gets checked around that's not good.

However it was pointed out to me, the odds that it gets checked around are very remote and you're very disguised so why give your hand away when you have two potential players who will bet for you.

This is like most standard flop xr ever.

Oh yeah the LRR, I was thinking about the button and forgot about that. That makes it tougher... and I know SSHE has an example where they suggest donking into the preflop raiser hoping they raise so you face everyone else with two... but in my experience it just hardly ever works out while the check raise often works.

It's interesting, according to SSHE when you donk you're hoping that the preflop raiser on your immediate left will raise with a weak made hand. At the same time, they highlight raising with a weak made hand to face the field with two cold as the play that most players miss. It's their big "counter intuitive" example in the start of the post flop play section.

Seems like some cognitive dissonance: "most players miss this, oh but make plays hoping they do it".

A little early for results imo

I think given the strength of your hand and your reads this is probably a good flop donk. The 4 off could have a ton of hands that aren't necessarily strong that he may check. The button is described as overly aggressive pre so he may easily have missed this flop and check back.

The rest of the hand seems good assuming you didn't fold the river.

Definitely x/r flop.

The 3 bettor is next to you and will likely bet this flop. When they do, you can trap the rest of the players in for 2 bets.

In my experience when someone limp 3 bets from MP they have a wider variety of hands than if they had limp 3 bet from EP. This is a board that I think they miss a fair amount and just check it back. I don't advocate donking often but given the reads this seems like a decent time to do it. If op thinks he will bet then CR is the way to go.

What about preflop? A10o is not a great hand vs. 3guys. Do we have 3bet option?

If it were one limp and one raise, 3 bet all day. As you say, ATo isn’t great against 3 guys, when was the last time you saw players limp and fold to a 3 bet? I’d guess that getting the limpers to fold isn’t going to work often enough to make 3 betting in this spot profitable.