Quote:
Originally Posted by FlopKAtcher
I was just thinking about this recently and what one's strategy should be during high hand promotions at the 3/6 limit tables. I try to play during the high hand times because I know people will be there, and the table is more likely to be full. Else, you could get stuck at a 5-6 seat table, when you actually take into account people are constantly getting up and coming back 20 minutes later. This happens less often when there is a hh possibility for them, which means fuller tables.
When I started playing limit, I played pretty standard. Raising preflop with a solid hand, value betting flops, calling draws when the pot odds warrant it, etc. Theoretically, when you have the best hand preflop... you should see positive equity over time and the more you can get into the pot preflop, the better. However, there is one important factor that needs to be considered. When you raise preflop with the standard TAG opening range, the other players can all put you on something pretty specific. Even the bad players. They now have information that you don't have, and your raise means very little in terms of their decision, especially if they already limped. Players will play with any two cards that could win the high hand promotion, so if that 7 3 is suited, then it is being played, so you really have no clue what they hold.
Rather than give the other players free information, I have adopted a limping strategy for my preflop play and focused more on studying the postflop concepts in Small Stakes Limit Hold Em (Miller, etc). This strategy is technically incorrect, but as mentioned I don't want the other players, many who are regs, to have a good idea of what I have, and I think that the limping strategy takes away their advantage here. Now, I will 3 bet with a standard opening range at times, because players will respect two bets.
Using this strategy means that my post flop play needed to improve. I am still working on that, but there are good concepts in SSLH that help tremendously with post flop decision making. For example, I often find myself in a hand with 5-7 others. Doesn't matter if someone raised preflop or not. They all just call. If you make a value bet on the flop, lots of draws and medium and low pairs are going to call you. Sounds great for your pocket QQ, right? You are charging them, except their pot odds aren't that bad and then on the turn they are even better. All you have done is made their call on the turn less of a mistake. So the texture of the flop along with the number of players who see the flop becomes very important.
Another interesting situation that occurs is deciding what to do when you have a draw to the high hand. If it's a time when full houses are often good to win the HH promotion (i.e. not a full room), and you flop a set of kings for example, do you really want to chase everyone out for the $15 in the pot on the flop when you have 7 (then 10) outs to the hh? Yeah, you might be giving someone a free card, and that free card might beat you, but getting 7 or 10 outs to win $250-300 seems to trump someone hitting the flush or open end draws.
One more thing that I find interesting. AA seems less valuable at 3/6 limit then something like 1/2 NL. Sounds crazy, right, but hear me out. If you raise with your AA preflop, and you end up with 1 or 2 others in the pot, you are more likely to win the pot then are they, but the pot is usually going to be on the small side. However, if you find yourself in a hand with 6 callers to your AA raise, then there is a good chance that two of them have an Ax. Many 3/6 players have a limping/calling range of AK suited to A2 off suit. What that means for you is that in a large pot, your AA isn't likely to improve. You may win with the pair, but not the set. Now, compare this to holding KK or QQ. The same players who will call with any Ax will have a limping calling range of K 10+ or Q9+. So you aren't seeing those K4 hands to the flop like you do when they hold A4. That means when a bunch of players see the flop and you hold QQ, then there are more likely to be Qs out there to improve your hand. You are then slightly more likely to end up with a set of Qs, and have a greater chance of taking down a larger multi way pot.
Feel free to critique these thoughts. I would love to read what others think!
1) If you're a winning poker player, you should relish the opportunity to play with less players. My preferred form of poker is HU or SH FL, and I really enjoy playing 3-4 handed poker. This is because I can make more non-folding decisions per unit time and per hand, which means more opportunity to win money. At a full table, FL mostly becomes a competition of who has the best hand at showdown, which forces you to play few hands.
2) When a pot in FL is 6 ways, there's no "exploiting" going on. Because even if they know you always have Ace hi when you check the T76 board, they have 4 other opponents to worry about. When you have a good hand, you're going to have the best of it more often than they will. It's that simple.
3) So what information are you actually hiding from your opponents by incorporating a 100% limping strategy? Are you playing looser ranges? What are you even doing here? If most of your limping range is the exact same set of hands you'd normally raise with, and you have an equity plurality against field callers, then how does limping this range benefit it over raising?
4) You're making a logical flaw in that your hand doesn't benefit from a value bet when it is the best hand. I could deconstruct this, but why do it when
xhad already has?. Namely, the higher equity hand always benefits from not giving a free card and the lower equity hand never benefits from having to call a bet. Just because calling is better than folding doesn't make betting your own hand a mistake.
5) The high hand caveat is actually a thing. But you need context: If the flop is 6 ways, odds are high that someone is going to call you if you have top set. If it's completely bone dry (like K72) and you're HU then maybe it's okay to trap it for the high hand. But you should not be checking KK on K76 when you have 6 people that can give you action.
6) This is pure insanity. AA is the best hand. Period. And people are just as likely to get dealt each of the 4 kings as they are each of the other 2 aces. Just because the hand is folded preflop doesn't mean the removal effects go away. You're equally likely to make a set of aces as you are a set of jacks, absent any information. And even if we know it's going to be 6 ways against limp call ranges that have more Ax than Qx, the difference is minimal. And doesn't magically make QQ more valuable than AA. Also, your premise that this makes AA more valuable at 1/2 NL makes no sense: People call raises w/ Ace rag constantly in 1/2. They also call raises with 43o. Because they're bad.
So yeah, you've fallen into a lot of logical traps because the small sample of live FL that you have has warped your perceptions on things. You have KK against 5 jabronis and only win 40% of the time. Conclusion: I shouldn't raise KK. You forget that when you do win with KK, the pot is much bigger because you played it normally.
Last edited by jdr0317; 12-21-2018 at 04:35 PM.
