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Flopping a vulnerable two pair Flopping a vulnerable two pair

02-19-2024 , 03:49 PM
Early in a session but seems like a prototypical SSHE table so far.

MP+2 limps, HJ limps, I'm in CO with JT and I raise. BTN 3!. BB and both limpers call, I call.

5.5bb, 5 players, flop is AJT. Checks to me, I check, BTN bets, BB and MP+2 fold, HJ calls, I call.

I see no reason to donk the flop, and I see no reason to raise the c-bet. There are a LOT of turn cards that could cripple my hand. This seems similar to the "Two Overpair Hands" section in the SSHE book - if the turn is, for example, the 2, I have a much bigger edge on the turn.

7bb, 3 players, turn is 9. HJ checks, I check, BTN bets, HJ folds, I call.

I hate that turn card. This does NOT seem to be a spot to be aggressive with two pair. I like my play. I don't have odds to draw to a boat but I think I'm ahead here enough to compensate.

9bb, 2 players, river is 2

This is actually a tough decision. If I check it gives him a chance to check behind KK and QQ without putting him to a decision. But if I bet it gives him a chance to raise AJ, AA, JJ and KQ (and possibly even TT, though it's rare to see people 3! TT at these stakes). If he has AK or AQ it gives him a chance to bet it a 3rd time. I'm honestly not sure what the right decision is here.

For sure, if I check and he bets I'm callling - I'm not folding two pair for one bet, even on that board. If I donk and he raises, can I fold? My default read against any SSHE villain I don't have a long history with is that river raises are worse than top two pair, especially not on a board with that many high cards and a threeflush.

Thoughts welcome.

Last edited by DalTXColtsFan; 02-19-2024 at 03:54 PM.
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02-19-2024 , 04:14 PM
id cap it preflop. you have more than your fair share of equity. you dont have to cbet bad flops.

postflop, when a pot gets this big and i dont want to b/c the river i c/c it. maybe not the most +EV in a vacuum but i do it for my own metagame:

1) i dont like to show that i can b/f the river in big pots. even if players arent savvy enough to take advantage of this tendency, in your head you'll think they are and so you'll start thinking people will start taking shots at you. this is very distracting.

2) i tend to be hypercritical when i do things out of the ordinary and they backfire. donking this river is definitely out of the ordinary. if i get raised and then call with a losing hand i pretty much think im an idiot for doing it.
Flopping a vulnerable two pair Quote
02-22-2024 , 09:34 AM
Capping pre is not a bad idea. I don't do it but I probably should, especially at this game/rake.

You may need to take one shot at this flop, probably with a kr. AK, AQ, KK, QQ all need to pay to draw out on us. That's a lot of combos. Im doubtful AJo and ATo are regular 3bets though I could be out of touch. But I don't think kc is terrible.

Turn I think is well played. Button continues to like his hand betting into two opponents with straight and flush possible.

River we have been counterfeited and should strongly consider kf. We don't beat anything. You think spending one bet is automatic and wonder whether donk bluff is better than kc. We should have some better candidates, like KdTc for example. But I think we can agree that donk bluffing rarely works and should be very infrequent.

Another option is kr as a bluff. Although you're determined to call, this is the bottom of your calling range, which is right next to the top of your folding range. This is from where we should choose KR bluffs. We could have played JJ/TT this way given there are flushes and a straight on the flop and we block buttons full houses.

On balance, I think kr is the best option. I won't quibble with arguments that they never fold they don't pay attention yada yada. But it's more important than you at least consider (and hopefully try) this option so that you get better at finding good opportunities in the future.
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02-22-2024 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munga30
River we have been counterfeited .
?
Flopping a vulnerable two pair Quote
02-22-2024 , 08:07 PM
Ah crap, I saw both 2c in the post and misread it. Please disregard. Kf river is fine.
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02-23-2024 , 02:40 AM
Check fold river? I disagree. I think this is a clear check/call as played.

ThereÂ’s no reason to think that button canÂ’t have AK with or without a diamond this hand. We block AJ, JJ, TT, and AT is unlikely to be 3bet. AA constitutes 3 combos. KQs constitutes 4 combos. AK is a bunch of combos and button has no reason to think itÂ’s beat. I donÂ’t think we get extra value from AK by donking and we open ourselves up to a raise from all hands that beat us allowing him to play perfect.

If we think about it, itÂ’s very unlikely button flopped a flush due to the 3betting strategy of a typical low stakes player being very nut heavy. I think we are one or two pips higher than his bottom value range. Simple pot odds dictate we should generally call if we beat some portion of his value range.

If I had reason to believe opponent would not bet AK on the river then I could potentially get behind a fold.

IÂ’m kind of stuck on the flop and turn play. While I agree that delay raising the turn can make sense on certain boards, I think we will run into tricky situations here and have hands higher up in our range to play as check/raises.

Our hand is really weird because relatively itÂ’s actually a pretty weak hand. But it is strong enough to entertain check/raising on the turn. So IÂ’m sure better players than me could give you more insight on flop/turn play. I canÂ’t imagine check/calling all three streets does much worse than more aggressive actions that might get you into an overplay situation.
Flopping a vulnerable two pair Quote
02-23-2024 , 06:10 AM
NH as long as you c/c river. I don’t think the 9 is actually a bad card for you vis-a-vis villain’s range (since he shouldn’t have A9 or any hand that a 9 improves), but your hand is only one pip better than AK and is probably worth playing more passively on this texture.

I probably would not cap in a 4/8 or 8/16 game. I’d do it in a game where ranges are wider.
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03-26-2024 , 08:53 PM
Very simple river check-call... well played. It's really easy to beat JT on that board.
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