Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
facing relentless Cbs facing relentless Cbs

02-27-2021 , 10:30 PM
I started to get back into 6-max limit on-line. I use to love playing live full-ring games about 10 years ago, but stopped back then for various reasons.

Now I was playing at a 6-max table but it was basically HU. I stuck with it since I figured the table would fill up if others saw there was a game going on.

I never really played HU limit before so I just used my BB calling a raise from the Btn range, about 65%, for both positions. When I was SB I just complete the bet since I did not want to give away the strength of my stronger hands, and just called a raise when I was BB for the same reason.

When I was OOP on the flop the SB would make a CB and I would fold since I did not connect with the flop. I don't use a HUD and don't know if my opponent does either but it would be clear that my "fold to Cb" would be high that he was printing money against me.

How should I better defend against this? The only things I could think of is:
1) should I tighten up my BB calling range?
2) float the flop more and with what criteria? I think when I did miss, my best hand would be K-high.
3) try for steals like check-raising the flop and lead out on the turn?
4) use some sort of polarized 3-bet range preflop? Is polarized ranges even a thing in limit?
5) admit defeat, not play HU and accept that I won't be able to get a game going?

2-4 seems like high variance type plays that I'm not that comfortable with but I would be willing to give it a try.

Thank you for any advice!
facing relentless Cbs Quote
02-27-2021 , 11:01 PM
Don't limp in from the sb heads up. Yes, you should be floating more but you should also be bluff raising on the flop wider. You should also be calling down lighter. Also, it's not good to be only calling from the big blind because you give up too much value and you have a better chance of winning with weaker hands.

If you want to improve your HU play, this is a good website. Just see how the bot plays and play around with it a little bit:

http://poker.srv.ualberta.ca/
facing relentless Cbs Quote
02-28-2021 , 08:56 AM
open 82%. call bb 90%(basically fold 83o-, 72o, 62o, 52o, 42o, 32o)

3 bet/call bb margin is near these hands: A8s/A7s(vs players that fold a lot postflop i throw in A5s-) K9s/K8s, Q9s/Q8s, J9s/J8s, T9s/T8s, 98s/97s, 87s(this one is either yes or no depending on opp went to showdown frequency). A9o/A8o, KTo/K9o(i think gto 3 bets K9o at low frequency but havent studied charts in a while) QJo/QTo. and pocket pairs somewhere between 44/66.

flops like 456r, Q54 mono, i expect many flop checks by button so i donk here often(relatively often maybe 15-25% with strong hands and draws). but if they dont flop check much i'll check 100% here and check raise often.

flops like 554, A72, K22, i check 100% in bb.

conversely, drawy flops i check in position a lot, dry flops i bet at or near 100%.

on flop in bb, youre getting 5.5:1 to continue(about 15% pot investment) and u need to consider opponent turn bet frequency(u cant chase really weak draws vs opponents that bet a lot relative to gto because they will deny your river equity, but u can chase very weak draws vs players that check turn often because you get to realize much equity on river often for free). top pair is 100% check raise in bb with rare exception(either slowplaying to raise turn, or hoping to catch bluffs vs very tight bettors when my kicker sucks) middle pair is really strong on some boards but not so much on others. do some equilab work for this part on your own. its too complicated for me to explain in few paragraphs. otherwise any pair or real draw(to straight or flush including weak gutshots) can profitably call flop, and even weaker draws can call the flop on some boards(six outs to strong second pair with backdoor straight/flush potential is often a call). u gotta consider the average price to see the river. passive opponents let u call flop wider and aggros make u fold flop more. also ace/king high is folded on flop at low freuqency depending on board. queen high can call lots of boards but should be folded more often than A or K high.

Quote:
4) use some sort of polarized 3-bet range preflop? Is polarized ranges even a thing in limit?
polarized is a fun word that gets thrown around a lot, however if u think in terms of profitability you will realize that theres actually linear progression from (fold = 0ev avoiding negative ev calls), (call = slightly profitable), (3 bet = very profitable) notice that in order for 3 betting to be correct it must have higher ev than calling of course. so in terms of polarization(you see gap between strong hands and drawing hands on equilab grid) theres not much happening in limit holdem(we dont see much gap like in no limit). also nobody ever folds pre vs 3 bet(at least nobody decent does), so if 87s is a 3 bet vs this opponent, then surely 98s, JTs, and all stronger suited connectors are 3 bets. the only hands that violate this principle are the Axs wheel draws, which are stronger than A7s and A6s thanks to the added draw value.


Quote:
5) admit defeat, not play HU and accept that I won't be able to get a game going?
depends on your motivations and goals. this is entirely up to u.
facing relentless Cbs Quote
03-01-2021 , 04:56 AM
Good post. I would just say that 3betting a lot will put you in some weird wide range spots so even just implementing a slightly tighter 3betting strategy than the one you recommended will show a profit over not 3betting at all.
facing relentless Cbs Quote
03-06-2021 , 09:56 PM
Thanks for all the info guys.

checkraisdraw, great link, I'm using their HU charts.

Good info, Bob. It'll take me a bit too fully absorb it all, but looking at flop texture OOP is not something I really considered in HU.

I guess my comment about polarized 3-bets preflop was to set up steals post flop. I don't really expect to have an fold-equity preflop. But with the charts provided by checkraisdraw's link the idea becomes more moot as their raising range is more linear(?) and includes the bottom part of the range I would create and everything in between.

I've only had 2 instances of being HU. Both times the table then filled up quickly, but now I am more confident if it were to stay HU.
facing relentless Cbs Quote
04-11-2021 , 10:32 PM
"5) admit defeat, not play HU and accept that I won't be able to get a game going?"

I suppose you found yourself in this situation at Ignition/Bovada? That site—which is one of the very few with limit holdem—practically forces you to work as an unpaid shill. They often seat you at an empty table, and you have no idea if you are on a waiting list or if there is even another game being dealt at the limit you chose. Therefore, if you wait long enough, another player may join you. As often as not, that second player doesn't want to play heads-up either. Sometimes that second player will play HU with you, but the game may not fill up because the number of limit holdem players is fairly low.

Ignition "offers" 6-max limit but you often find yourself heads-up, at a super-short-handed table, or sitting endlessly alone at an empty table. Therefore, limit holdem players who do well there have to be extremely flexible and adept at all those forms of the game. I miss the old days where you could select your table.

Last edited by caballo666; 04-11-2021 at 10:37 PM. Reason: correct punctuation
facing relentless Cbs Quote
04-13-2021 , 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caballo666
"5) admit defeat, not play HU and accept that I won't be able to get a game going?"

I suppose you found yourself in this situation at Ignition/Bovada? That site—which is one of the very few with limit holdem—practically forces you to work as an unpaid shill. They often seat you at an empty table, and you have no idea if you are on a waiting list or if there is even another game being dealt at the limit you chose. Therefore, if you wait long enough, another player may join you. As often as not, that second player doesn't want to play heads-up either. Sometimes that second player will play HU with you, but the game may not fill up because the number of limit holdem players is fairly low.

Ignition "offers" 6-max limit but you often find yourself heads-up, at a super-short-handed table, or sitting endlessly alone at an empty table. Therefore, limit holdem players who do well there have to be extremely flexible and adept at all those forms of the game. I miss the old days where you could select your table.
I am one of these guys. I play bovada 1/2 and 3/6 and find this maddening. I like the anonymity because I have never used a HUD. I have been considering investing in PT and jumping on ACR...is it worth the jump? I have been only on bovada since Black Friday.
facing relentless Cbs Quote
04-13-2021 , 05:04 PM
ACR has regular LHE action, although you see the same fairly small group of players a lot. A lot of unorthodox play, including from folks who seem to be winners. Seriously makes me question myself sometimes.

If you don't want to invest in PT, something like PokeIt is like $5/month for basic hold 'em support.
facing relentless Cbs Quote
04-14-2021 , 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardinthepaint
ACR has regular LHE action, although you see the same fairly small group of players a lot. A lot of unorthodox play, including from folks who seem to be winners. Seriously makes me question myself sometimes.

If you don't want to invest in PT, something like PokeIt is like $5/month for basic hold 'em support.
I have scouted the LH at ACR during the pandemic. After playing at Ignition, I would open up the tables there. The LH action seemed to be very limited—especially for games below $5/10. Because Ignition's tables are hidden, it is difficult to compare its traffic with that of ACR or that of any other site. But my unscientific surveys led me to believe that ACR had less LH than Ignition.
I just started a new thread here asking if there were any viable online alternatives to Ignition and ACR for players who love limit holdem.
facing relentless Cbs Quote
04-14-2021 , 11:16 AM
During much of the day you will see the same players sitting alone at tables because they won't play one another, and a lot of people won't sit because they don't want to play heads up against them. If someone else starts a table or if one or two people join a game usually it fills up pretty quickly. If you play during evenings (US) you shouldnt have any trouble getting a game going.
facing relentless Cbs Quote
04-15-2021 , 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardinthepaint
During much of the day you will see the same players sitting alone at tables because they won't play one another, and a lot of people won't sit because they don't want to play heads up against them. If someone else starts a table or if one or two people join a game usually it fills up pretty quickly. If you play during evenings (US) you shouldnt have any trouble getting a game going.
Thank you. I'll try one of the ACR sites in the near future.
Because of the problems I mentioned above, I moved away from LH at Ignition; I took up NL SnGs and was a small winner. But I love limit holdem!
facing relentless Cbs Quote

      
m