A friend came over to sweat a hand while waiting to be called. Some EP raises, gets a bunch of callers, I call BB w/ 9-8o. Suits don't matter.

Flop: 8-6-5r.

Donk or try for a c/r maybe?

Check and see. Donking does nothing to protect your hand. If EP C bets, I am not raising. If it gets checked to a late position player I will raise. The thing I don't want is to get isolated OOP against the strong range of EP and fold out potential customers when behind. I also don't want to get value owned with a good but not great hand that I can't fold before the river. The rainbow board limits my ability to get called down with worse since I have less draws in my range.

The only reason to donk is if EP is smart enough to check no-pair on this flop. If he is an auto-cbetter, then no reason to bet.

So... it depends.

Which is why I made this thread. I bet and got some callers. My buddy said that he liked to c/r that kind of flop. I said it would be tragic if it got checked through. Every player that I can make fold is a huge win and if I get push-back I've still got a hand.

Actually, the most important thing is understanding whether EP raiser is a habitual auto-cbettor on bad board textures, or how passive/aggressive the coldcallers are behind him. If the table is at all aggressive (cold-callers will bet any pair, draws, overcards + gutshot, etc.), then this flop is unlikely to get checked through.

You also didn't mention how many cold-callers there are, if there were 2 then I suppose there is some chance the flop gets checked through, if there were like 4 then there should be virtual zero chance.

The whole point is not whether something will happen or not ("it would be tragic if it got checked through"), but the probability of something. Of course it would be ****ing tragic if nobody bet this flop, the question is what is the probability of it happening. I don't know anyone at the table, I can't answer that probability, you do and you were there, so estimate a probability. There's your answer.

I wasn't at all certain that anyone would bet the flop. It was many callers for the raise pre but I don't remember how many and I wanted to give some of them the opportunity to fold.

Depending on the looseness/aggressiveness of the EP raiser I’d make a case for donking hoping the EP raiser might raise on the flop to knock out some of the overcards hands players at the lower stakes autocall one small bet with as well as smaller pair hands. (Not to mention that depending on your own image you might be able to knock out some of these hands that might call just by showing strength outside of the preflop raiser’s cbet.)

It's pretty hard to give an opinion on the hand when you don't know what the action is.

I think UTG+1 raised and got 4 callers to me in the BB. It's tough to assign ranges bec these ppl can have almost anything (nothing is a surprise) and, besides, there isn't much time to think about all of them.

What I do know is that there a very few safe cards on the turn and I'd love it if everyone folded to the bet. Ofc, they won't all fold but there's hope that some will and that's a help.

It's possible that a donk coming from you might look terrifying to the other players and result in more folds than if I were to donk.

I'd wager that it's more likely you get raised by a better hand than it is to get checked around on the flop. I play mostly 20/40 and it's not getting checked through here ever. Perhaps in your game it's different.

I will put myself in the "it probably won't get checked around" camp. I want to see what EP does, and how the others react before I decide. I don't want to donk and get raised right away.

If there is a lot of action by the time it gets back to me, my draw has less value and my pair is not good, so I can fold for no investment if that seems right.

If EP bets and there are callers, then I will raise because my equity is good. If the bet comes from late position, I will raise also.

I would check. If the EP bettor bets, I'm just calling. If he checks and someone else bets, I'm check raising. And I'm probably cold calling a bet and a raise from any origination.

What happens if we bet?

Maybe EP opener raises. Suddenly everyone else in the hand is facing a double bet. Nobody with a bare 7 is folding. Someone with 97 or (less likely, but you never know with clowns like these) 74 may or may not put a third bet in. If it comes back two more bets to us, I think I could find a fold.

But whether or not they manage to isolate us, I don't think they are raising with a big ace on this board (but you never know with clowns like these), so we are likely dominated and in a bad spot.

Maybe opener calls or folds. Someone in the field bets, and maybe they get callers. We should call a single raise and see a turn. But it is less than ideal, because we are very likely in a Morton's Theorem situation where the extra bets in the pot pad the equity of the best draw but don't do us much good. Instead we get a bunch more cards we need to fade.

If we check, we can evaluate what happens. If EP bets and gets callers, we can call. If they get raised, we can consider folding. If it is checked to someone in late position, we can consider raising both for value and to thin the field.

I think we are better off checking than betting.

Another way to look at it: we are in worst absolute position, but best relative position with respect to the opener. Betting throws away the advantage of best relative position, and exposes us to the brunt of the disadvantages of worst absolute position.

Sometimes donking is appropriate in a multiway pot when the flop gives us a reasonably strong hand that is vulnerable to a bunch of three- or six-out draws that individually are in bad shape but collectively suck up equity. This is not a situation like that.

Also I wish HB changed his hand from 98 to 55 on this board, just to see if it would induce ZOMG_RIGGED to post.

I think it is time for the donkers to concede to the non donkers. Does anybody know what percentage of the vote is in?

I've got a very strong contrarian streak in me. When I take a side and hardly anyone agrees I think I'm even more correct.

You can see how many votes there are, yo!

I congratulate HB on understanding what a donk bet is.