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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 11-03-2014, 10:05 PM   #1
Ativan
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Current expected ceiling in earning FLH, HU & shorthanded

Ohnoes! Another winrate question!!! :O I couldn't find this specific question in the search, however.

What's the currently expected attainable winrate for FLH in HU and shorthanded play (up to 6 max) for stakes 3/6-8/16 (online)?

There was a reg at FTP before black Friday that was 3.5bb/100 at 3/6, 5/10. The games were listed as 6max but there weren't always 6 players at the table--sometimes less. Anyway this grinder was making over 100k/year, consistently, and his graph was a beautiful, smooth line upwards. He played as high as 20/40 but his winrrate was much smaller there. He was crushing 3/6, and 5/10.
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:13 PM   #2
tiger415
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Re: Current expected ceiling in earning FLH, HU & shorthanded

three fifty sounds about right
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:23 PM   #3
MacauBound
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Re: Current expected ceiling in earning FLH, HU & shorthanded

I think 3.5 big bets per 100 hands (after rake, but before rakeback and bonuses?) is not even close to attainable online right now. I'm not sure what is, but more HU and shorthanded targeting weaker players would obviously boost your winrate. But the best I seem to hear of is around 1.5 BB/100 if avg players at table was like 4 or something. I'm not even 100% on those figures bc it's all pretty much anecdotal.

Last edited by MacauBound; 11-03-2014 at 11:24 PM. Reason: ahhh, maybe 3 fiddy. maybe
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:55 PM   #4
Ativan
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Re: Current expected ceiling in earning FLH, HU & shorthanded

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Originally Posted by MacauBound View Post
I think 3.5 big bets per 100 hands (after rake, but before rakeback and bonuses?)
Good question. Idk. It's what was listed on PTR. That obv wouldn't have included rb and bonuses but I'm not sure if it factored in rake.
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Old 11-04-2014, 12:26 AM   #5
Jon_locke
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Re: Current expected ceiling in earning FLH, HU & shorthanded

People that won 3 BB/100 were massive bumhunters and/or constantly buttoning people which is basically cheating. They were not playing regularly and winning 3 BB/100.

Pretty easy to crush poker if your sessions last 1 or 3 hands.
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Old 11-04-2014, 05:53 AM   #6
BigBadBabar
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Re: Current expected ceiling in earning FLH, HU & shorthanded

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ativan View Post
Ohnoes! Another winrate question!!! :O I couldn't find this specific question in the search, however.

What's the currently expected attainable winrate for FLH in HU and shorthanded play (up to 6 max) for stakes 3/6-8/16 (online)?

There was a reg at FTP before black Friday that was 3.5bb/100 at 3/6, 5/10. The games were listed as 6max but there weren't always 6 players at the table--sometimes less. Anyway this grinder was making over 100k/year, consistently, and his graph was a beautiful, smooth line upwards. He played as high as 20/40 but his winrrate was much smaller there. He was crushing 3/6, and 5/10.
many heads up players had winrates that high or higher, and PTR tracked hu play at ring games as ring play/winrates. no one was making 3.5 or higher over big samples in non-hu play. maybe the best ring grinders were making between 1 and 1.5 in their ring play. most of the best players were at least comfortable hu (and therefore sh) and so could increase time spent in profitable spots because they'd increased their game selection. that would skew their PTR winrates though.

the answer to your question will depend somewhat on what sites you are talking about. the usa-facing sites (bovada, carbon) have softer lhe games than the world-facing sites (pokerstars, etc), but no rewards to augment winrate. the world-facing sites have tougher games but do have some rewards.

either way, lhe has declined a ton online. there are way fewer games than before BF.

hu lhe is mostly dead everywhere - i imagine if you bumhunted multiple stakes across multiple sites (as the HU "regs" still do) you could still make 3 or 5/100 if you were playing only fish

6m or fr - anything near 1/100 (pre-rb/bonus/etc) would be really excellent and put you in the top group today

also, i realize you are using bb/100 (big blinds) but we typically measure winrates in BB/100 (big bets), which are double the bb. so that might be affecting your nomenclature (or it might not). my numbers in this post refer to big bets (BB)

who's the FTP player you're thinking of?
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Old 11-04-2014, 08:02 AM   #7
Ativan
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Re: Current expected ceiling in earning FLH, HU & shorthanded

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PTR tracked hu play at ring games as ring play/winrates. no one was making 3.5 or higher over big samples in non-hu play.
True. This particular player, whom I railed many times, would play a lot of hu at 6max tables. That is probably the reason his winrate was inflated (at 6 max games).

Quote:
also, i realize you are using bb/100 (big blinds) but we typically measure winrates in BB/100 (big bets), which are double the bb. so that might be affecting your nomenclature (or it might not). my numbers in this post refer to big bets (BB)
My mistake. I was thinking bb. That changes things significantly lol.

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who's the FTP player you're thinking of?
Round Up RD. I played against him a lot.
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Old 11-04-2014, 08:33 AM   #8
BigBadBabar
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Re: Current expected ceiling in earning FLH, HU & shorthanded

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Originally Posted by Ativan View Post
True. This particular player, whom I railed many times, would play a lot of hu at 6max tables. That is probably the reason his winrate was inflated (at 6 max games).



My mistake. I was thinking bb. That changes things significantly lol.



Round Up RD. I played against him a lot.
Yes, he was/is very strong. A nice guy too
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Old 11-04-2014, 08:40 AM   #9
Ativan
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Re: Current expected ceiling in earning FLH, HU & shorthanded

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Yes, he was/is very strong. A nice guy too
Yes, very nice indeed. Does he still play?
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