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15/30 - 2 hands...best play otr?

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11-18-2017 , 04:56 AM

DTLB

adept

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 904

Hand 1:

Utg passive player limps, I raise T

, only utg calls.

HU, 5.5 BB: K

Utg xc flop and turn, then checks river dark. Hero?

Hand 2:

5-way, 5 SB: 8

Hero bets with 9

from SB, three calls

4-way, 4.5 BB: 3

Hero bets, one fold, HJ calls, CO folds

HU, 6.5 BB: K

Hero bets, HJ snap raises. HJ is a 60s middle eastern reg; almost certainly a losing player. Hero? (Not folding obv)

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11-18-2017 , 12:16 PM

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,677

Hand 1) Is the player loose? Does the player peel loosely? If this player is a tight passive limper I prefer a check since he could have a K but probably doesn't hit the rest of the board. I'm not seeing to many way's he can call with worse. If he is loose and peels loosely And calls down loosely, I'd throw in a bet. My default absent reads is to check against passive players.

Hand 2) my initial reaction is to 3 bet. You are probably only gonna get 4 bet if he has the nuts. I can see him raising a King or a rivered two pair.

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11-18-2017 , 12:26 PM

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Hand 1 is a clear bet and hand 2 is a sad call. 3 betting an old when the flush comes in isn’t good

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11-18-2017 , 01:54 PM

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,677

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

Hand 1 is a clear bet and hand 2 is a sad call. 3 betting an old when the flush comes in isn’t good

It's an old losing Middle Eastern player and it's a backdoored flush and we have the Ts. I think it's thin but good 3 bet here in hand 2.

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11-18-2017 , 02:01 PM

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

It's an old losing Middle Eastern player and it's a backdoored flush and we have the Ts. I think it's thin but good 3 bet here in hand 2.

The only hand he could have that isn’t a flush or a bluff is kings up and I think even spewtards don’t raise that too much

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11-18-2017 , 03:08 PM

samdash

adept

Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,196

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

It's an old losing Middle Eastern player and it's a backdoored flush and we have the Ts. I think it's thin but good 3 bet here in hand 2.

Missing Ts would decapitate a normal flushdraw range. As for possible two-pair hands, I suppose its reasonable to give a guy with that description all combos of K8s, K7s, most K5s/K3s, and possibly K8o/K7o. But if he's playing that junk, he'll be playing most possible spade hands even w/o the Ts. If you can find more 2 pair combos than flush, a 3-bet is very tempting, and maybe not as risky as it seems. The deciding factor might be that it'll freeze the action vs. the non-nuts.

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11-18-2017 , 03:18 PM

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,677

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

The only hand he could have that isn’t a flush or a bluff is kings up and I think even spewtards don’t raise that too much

Calling is fine. I 3 bet this against some players. This guy kinda sounds like one.

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11-18-2017 , 03:20 PM

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,677

Quote:

Originally Posted by samdash

Good point about a loose player having more flush draws.

You guy's don't see people raising a King here?

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11-18-2017 , 03:48 PM

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,051

Hand 1, check and expect to lose often

Hand 2, I also think this should be a call but if villain is bad enough 3! Is ok
Still is he raising the river with kings up? Slowplayed sets and straights? For this reason I prefer call

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11-18-2017 , 05:33 PM

#10

AlanBostick

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,482

Hand 1: Easy-peasy bet/fold. Villain will call with a lot we beat because there isn't any hand with a six in it that we would play like this.

Hand 2: Call. Raising is bad, folding is worse.

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11-18-2017 , 09:21 PM

#11

DTLB

adept

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 904

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

It's an old losing Middle Eastern player and it's a backdoored flush and we have the Ts. I think it's thin but good 3 bet here in hand 2.

No, the Ts was from hand 1. We have two clubs in hand 2 so we're not blocking a flush.

Also while true that the flush came thru the backdoor, there's no reason why villain can't have hands like A

, A

, 9

, 5

, J

, or worse yet 9

...

Almost no villain raises Kx OTR but K8 is possible. Not sure there's any other Kings up hand he could have after calling the turn.

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11-18-2017 , 09:30 PM

#12

DTLB

adept

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 904

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanBostick

Hand 1: Easy-peasy bet/fold. Villain will call with a lot we beat because there isn't any hand with a six in it that we would play like this.

True, but villain could have Kx. Even QQ JJ isn't out of the question. I've seen that so many times from passive players. There's also 87 and 57. Even 77. Is there enough hands we beat that can call otr to make it a profitable bet? It's not so clear to me.

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11-19-2017 , 12:51 AM

#13

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,677

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTLB

No, the Ts was from hand 1. We have two clubs in hand 2 so we're not blocking a flush.

Also while true that the flush came thru the backdoor, there's no reason why villain can't have hands like A

, A

, 9

, 5

, J

, or worse yet 9

...

Almost no villain raises Kx OTR but K8 is possible. Not sure there's any other Kings up hand he could have after calling the turn.

Ok, I just call.

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11-20-2017 , 02:44 PM

#14

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTLB

Hand 1:

Utg passive player limps, I raise T

, only utg calls.

HU, 5.5 BB: K

Utg xc flop and turn, then checks river dark. Hero?

Hand 2:

5-way, 5 SB: 8

Hero bets with 9

from SB, three calls

4-way, 4.5 BB: 3

Hero bets, one fold, HJ calls, CO folds

HU, 6.5 BB: K

Hero bets, HJ snap raises. HJ is a 60s middle eastern reg; almost certainly a losing player. Hero? (Not folding obv)

Hand 1: Bet/fold. Value own yourself a bunch but I think his most likely hand is some sort of 8. We can add weight to this because if he had a hand like, say, 65s, he'd be way more interested in what the river card is, versus dark checking, so it tilts him more towards weak showdown that doesn't have many cards to improve on.

Hand 2: Call. It's way closer to a fold than a 3 bet, so don't even think about doing that.

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