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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 04-22-2021, 02:32 AM   #1
poskid
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Button Play Small Pair

4/8 half kill 8 handed table playing 6 players Hero does not have Leg Up

UTG Folds, HJ calls LAG player, CO folds, Hero on the button has 44 and raises, SB folds (Nit), BB Loose passive Calls HJ call

Flop 9,5,2 two clubs

Checks to Hero who bets, both call

Turn J not a club and doesn't give a second flush draw

Checks to Hero who bets, BB folds, HJ calls

River 8 no flush possible

HJ Checks,

Do you value/bluff bet here or check and pray?
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Old 04-22-2021, 07:47 AM   #2
Unguarded
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Re: Button Play Small Pair

Pre-flop is close between overlimping and raising to get the overly tight SB out. Either is fine.

I like the flop and turn.

I would check the river since HJ is unlikely to have many worse calling hands. Since he limped pre, he is unlikely to have ace hi for example. It doesn't make sense to bluff here since I would expect him to call with 5x.
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Old 04-22-2021, 11:54 AM   #3
tw2238
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Re: Button Play Small Pair

I check. I raise 55 and limp behind 44 here .

Last edited by tw2238; 04-22-2021 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 04-22-2021, 02:20 PM   #4
ninefingershuffle
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Re: Button Play Small Pair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unguarded View Post
Pre-flop is close between overlimping and raising to get the overly tight SB out. Either is fine.

I like the flop and turn.

I would check the river since HJ is unlikely to have many worse calling hands. Since he limped pre, he is unlikely to have ace hi for example. It doesn't make sense to bluff here since I would expect him to call with 5x.
+1
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Old 04-22-2021, 03:00 PM   #5
poskid
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Re: Button Play Small Pair

Is over-limping really an option here? I figured it was a raise or fold situation as we aren't getting enough equity/implied odds at 2.5-1 to set mine, make a straight draw, or seeing a checked flop where we can bet. I really don't think playing this hand 4-way (if SB calls) when two of the players are the dead money hands and the rake being 10% plus a $2 promo drop is worth it.

Typically I would over-limp with this hand if there was another caller before my action giving me 3.5-1 to flop a set, straight draw or seeing a checked flop where we can bet.

Is my logic flawed?
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Old 04-23-2021, 02:37 PM   #6
mongidig
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Re: Button Play Small Pair

Quote:
Originally Posted by poskid View Post
Is over-limping really an option here? I figured it was a raise or fold situation as we aren't getting enough equity/implied odds at 2.5-1 to set mine, make a straight draw, or seeing a checked flop where we can bet. I really don't think playing this hand 4-way (if SB calls) when two of the players are the dead money hands and the rake being 10% plus a $2 promo drop is worth it.

Typically I would over-limp with this hand if there was another caller before my action giving me 3.5-1 to flop a set, straight draw or seeing a checked flop where we can bet.

Is my logic flawed?
I think your logic is fine. I don't get the over limp advice either.
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Old 04-27-2021, 11:06 AM   #7
hardinthepaint
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Re: Button Play Small Pair

Re: overlimping -- The flaw in your logic (to the extent there is one) is that you are sort of assuming you have to play the pot passively post if you choose to limp, and you may be overestimating the impact raising pre is going to have on your ability to win the pot.

Your hand is not any stronger on the flop when you limp vs. when you raise. Raising pre gives you "initiative," which makes the hand somewhat easier to play when you do not flop a set, but you will usually still need to have the best hand to win, especially against multiple opponents. Everyone else probably has very good equity against your hand, and you might even be beat. Putting in the extra bet pre when we are dominated by a bigger pair is a pretty huge cost, because we likely have the least equity in the pot at that point (i.e. if someone has 55 the players with random middling junk are all doing better than you). You are going to have absolute position no matter what you do pre. Limping keeps the pot smaller, which might make some flop spots easier for you. And if you have an overlimping range, against thinking opponents you would want to be able to flop sets sometimes when you limp.
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Old 04-27-2021, 02:16 PM   #8
checkraisdraw
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Re: Button Play Small Pair

If the rake is 6 dollars I would probably just fold pre. If I was going to play, it would be for a raise. I like how you played the hand and would check river on the end.
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Old 04-28-2021, 10:52 AM   #9
poskid
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Re: Button Play Small Pair

Quote:
Originally Posted by checkraisdraw View Post
If the rake is 6 dollars I would probably just fold pre. If I was going to play, it would be for a raise. I like how you played the hand and would check river on the end.
It's 10% of the pot up to $4 with a $2 promo drop if the hand goes to the flop. So yes, the pot would be 6BB on the river after rake and promo drop and the rake is capped.

There is a strong argument for folding pre due to the rake and promo. In fact, is one of the reasons why I posted the hand. However, If there is an edge to be exploited we should do it especially what is currently playing as a 6 handed table with the bad rake conditions. I think it's close with 44 or 55 and is an auto fold with 22-33 but I think 66-99 plays this exact way every time without even thinking about it.
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Old 04-30-2021, 02:55 AM   #10
checkraisdraw
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Re: Button Play Small Pair

I think the value in raising a hand like this is that it adds to a "gambling" image. We don't mind pushing a small edge or a neutral ev situation so long as we can give off the "illusion of action." I don't think we're going to be punished for overraising the button here, even with the rake.
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:54 PM   #11
jdr0317
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Re: Button Play Small Pair

I see no good reason to turn this hand into a bluff, nor do I see a good reason to value bet. Leaves checking back and hoping to see hands like KT/A3/A2 as the only viable thing to do


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