no, its because it would be a ridiculous mistake. This is a live 8/16 bad loose asian guy.

i hate any line that involves folding, including r/f.

I raise river and show empathy when he flashes his KK after calling and losing.

I feel like this is a sexy spot to check the flop 5 ways. The chances of folding out the eventual winner by betting is low and including some stronger hands in our checking range allows us to get paid off a lot on the bigger streets when the board runs out favorably and our hand is underrepresented. It also allows us to save money when our hand is currently not best or when a crappy turn card hits and it suddenly become clear our hand is no good.

LA games do play a little different though and checking at that limit in LA might scream slowplay, in which case it's probably better to just bet so people assume you have nothing like most people who bet the flop in LA.

So that gets back to my earlier point.

If a re-raise is going to be called, you need 66 percent equity against villain's continuing range to justify your initial raise, rather than 50 percent (which is what you would need if villain is always calling).

I am not saying that raise-folding is the way to go; I am simply saying that when you are unwilling to raise-fold, you have to be more confident that you have the best hand when you raise in the first place.

I don't think raising here has much value. If you get 3bet, you can just outright fold. This is J8 or some goofy slowplay a significant % of the time. You're possibly as bad as 50-50 here after the river donk, so raising makes little sense. You can probably safely raise-fold, but that still doesn't swing the math in our favor imo.

+1

Though to the credit of people who want to raise, a lot of guys will do this line in live poker with weaker 8x because they’re scared of the straight card or they don’t want to scare off the Tx hand.

But it’s not a hugely profitable raise if it even is one.


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I am definitely raising here. I think villain is a dog to 3! Q9-, fearing JJ/TT which is probably the only hands he would play this way (as hero) and raise the river. I don't think your average player is raising hands like AA on the river, or playing Q9 this way, which only leaves boats.

I also think players who donk twice like this are often afraid the turn/river might get checked through and are afraid of missing a bet, but are also afraid of getting 3! when they c/r. They're not really attempting to bet/3!, and will begrudgingly bet/call.

IOW, if you view this hand from how villain thinks you are going to react with the various parts of your (perceived) range, you can figure out how you should actually respond with your hand.

With 11:1 on the flop bet, everyone's coming along. So just check with the intention of betting/raising on a favorable turn.

The turn as played is perfect for us. Didn't get re-raised, so I'm not super worried.

I'd probably just call the river and get to showdown. Raising can make things complicated and the pot is big enough and we have enough showdown value that it's worth ending it here, imo.

Let’s say you flop a set of 8s, would you check because everyone is going to come along?

@ninefingershuffle but what if someone flopped a straight? Don't be so reckless.