The betting on the come thread - Page 4 - Small Stakes Poker Forum

They know who I am..ask JRD, LMAO. Funny how you clowns want to call a logical statement that contradicts you're idiotic one as TROLLING...I mean really....you trying to tell me that a raise is not a deterrent to people, ur inviting them just to a bigger pot? you sound like an idiot, and what truly amazes me is THEN you get someone else to cosign your idiotic statement...yea im a troll...better a troll than a fool!

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01-25-2018 , 06:07 PM

#77

dead.money

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298

[QUOTE=callipygian;53400639]As ZOMG said, it's hard to come up with general rules because it really depends where the action is coming from and what their ranges are.

You profit when the fraction of money you put in is less than the fraction of the money you win. If you bet the flop and get 4 callers, you put in 20% of the money but have a greater than 20% chance of winning, so you profit long term. If you bet the turn and get 1 caller, you've put in 50% of the money but will have less than 50% chance of winning, so that's not good.

Not thru with this idiotic nonsense just starting...So according to your statement,,,"if you bet the turn and get 1 caller..etc.(I bolded it) So I bet the turn with two black aces on a board of AA24 get 1 caller and thats not good? LMAO!

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01-25-2018 , 06:11 PM

#78

dead.money

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

As ZOMG said, it's hard to come up with general rules because it really depends where the action is coming from and what their ranges are.

You profit when the fraction of money you put in is less than the fraction of the money you win. If you bet the flop and get 4 callers, you put in 20% of the money but have a greater than 20% chance of winning, so you profit long term. If you bet the turn and get 1 caller, you've put in 50% of the money but will have less than 50% chance of winning, so that's not good.

You don't know how each opponent will respond so you need to build a tree. Start with the (unlikely) scenario that everyone calls everything. Go through scenarios where 3 call the flop and you pick up a flush draw on the turn and 2 people call the turn and then you miss, etc. etc. Add up all those branches, weighted by how likely they are.

If nobody raises one pair or draws, that makes things easier. If people do, you need to account for scenarios like "I got raised by T8" or "they raise me on the flop with AJ but fold the turn when a Q hits." It gets very complicated.

You made one absolutely STUPID statement and then stated the obvious...nice post lmao.... useless gibberish..

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01-25-2018 , 06:20 PM

#79

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dead.money

Not thru with this idiotic nonsense just starting...So according to your statement,,,"if you bet the turn and get 1 caller..etc.(I bolded it) So I bet the turn with two black aces on a board of AA24 get 1 caller and thats not good? LMAO!

Unless the caller has a straight flush, you have a much greater than 50 chance of winning in your example, so it doesn't meet the criteria for his statement.

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01-25-2018 , 06:25 PM

#80

dead.money

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298

You profit when the fraction of money you put in is less than the fraction of the money you win. If you bet the flop and get 4 callers, you put in 20% of the money but have a greater than 20% chance of winning, so you profit long term. If you bet the turn and get 1 caller, you've put in 50% of the money but will have less than 50% chance of winning, so that's not good.

This has to be the stupidest paragraph I've ever read! Who says you have a greater than 20% change of winning???? there are no cards! what are you holdiing? what was the flop? etc....continuing same logic..how the hell do you know you dont have a greater than 50% change of winning? so its 6 handed on flop you bet and everyone calls... you bet turn everyone folds but one person..so how am I putting 50% genius? I'm putting 50% of bets for that round...but what about preflop, and turn? Calli I've butted heads with you before so no surprise this came from you. Although, sounds like something JRD would say. Kinda scary how much BAD advice you clowns throw around.

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01-25-2018 , 06:26 PM

#81

dead.money

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Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Unless the caller has a straight flush, you have a much greater than 50 chance of winning in your example, so it doesn't meet the criteria for his statement.

YOU CANT BE SERIOUS???? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

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01-25-2018 , 06:30 PM

#82

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dead.money

He was talking about the OP, where hero had QTs for a straight draw.

Might want to read the whole thread and think about it a bit before all your LMOAing.

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01-25-2018 , 06:35 PM

#83

dead.money

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Unless the caller has a straight flush, you have a much greater than 50 chance of winning in your example, so it doesn't meet the criteria for his statement.

Capped family pot..I bet flop get 9 callers...I bet turn with the nut flush draw and only get called by guy with a set...I'm less than 50%.. so that's bad? Now I understand what he was TRYING to say, which is pretty simplistic and could have gone without being said in first place...Obviously, putting up 50% of pot with less then 50% change of winning is bad..just as Obvious putting in 20% of pot with a greater than 20% chance to win is good...A DUH!

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01-25-2018 , 06:41 PM

#84

ZOMG_RIGGED!

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Quote:

just as Obvious putting in 20% of pot with a greater than 20% chance to win is good...A DUH!

So you agree we should be raising QTs?

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01-25-2018 , 06:42 PM

#85

dead.money

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Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

He was talking about the OP, where hero had QTs for a straight draw.

Might want to read the whole thread and think about it a bit before all your LMOAing.

NO HE WASN'T! he was making a general statement, that was flawed; theoretically and linguistically..

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01-25-2018 , 06:44 PM

#86

dead.money

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Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!

So you agree we should be raising QTs?

YES!!!!!! if in position and 2-6 people have limped in already..but NOT. utg, because of the reasons I've already outlined. chasing away the hands you want to play against!

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01-25-2018 , 06:46 PM

#87

DalTXColtsFan

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thettle down, beavith.

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01-25-2018 , 06:47 PM

#88

ZOMG_RIGGED!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dead.money

YES!!!!!! if in position and 2-6 people have limped in already..but NOT. utg, because of the reasons I've already outlined. chasing away the hands you want to play against!

But if 6 people have limped in you are 100% behind. So why do you now want to raise? A lot of the hands you’re so scared of are likely in the pot already

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01-25-2018 , 06:52 PM

#89

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dead.money

Capped family pot..I bet flop get 9 callers...I bet turn with the nut flush draw and only get called by guy with a set...I'm less than 50%.. so that's bad?

Yes, that was a bad result for you on the turn. If you had somehow known only one player would call, it would have been better to check.

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01-25-2018 , 06:56 PM

#90

callipygian

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Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

He was talking about the OP, where hero had QTs for a straight draw.

I meant for it to be general to all draws, but I think it also applies to value bets if you consider a value bet to be a 20-40 out "draw". Like if you have a 75% chance of "making your draw" and put in 50% of the money that's fine too.

But yeah, the exact scenario that DTxCF asked for was what he should do with an OESD on the flop.

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01-25-2018 , 07:25 PM

#91

dead.money

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Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

I meant for it to be general to all draws, but I think it also applies to value bets if you consider a value bet to be a 20-40 out "draw". Like if you have a 75% chance of "making your draw" and put in 50% of the money that's fine too.

But yeah, the exact scenario that DTxCF asked for was what he should do with an OESD on the flop.

Of course you did! LMAO & smmfh (just made that up,lol)

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01-25-2018 , 07:35 PM

#92

dead.money

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Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298

[QUOTE=chillrob;53401020]Yes, that was a bad result for you on the turn. If you had somehow known only one player would call, it would have been better

so I should be unhappy about investing $8 with a chance to win over a hundred? Of course not! I would have been HAPPIER if they all called, but I'm damn sure not upset with the situation! Point is pro/fish...we aren't putting in 50% on the turn! You're not counting the money from the previous streets! and that's what makes his statement STUPID!

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01-25-2018 , 07:44 PM

#93

dead.money

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Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!

But if 6 people have limped in you are 100% behind. So why do you now want to raise? A lot of the hands you’re so scared of are likely in the pot already

WOW!!! one more time WOW! lmao....

If 6 people have limped in 'im 100% behind??? you sound like a fool! with people limping 95% of their range lol...I want to raise pro/fish cause I ran the numbers given two random hands and 2 limpers with ranges as stated above..and one with a tighter range. You should be raising 13 and the 9's(suited hands) in that situation...13 and 9's = A3 or better K9 or better, Q9 or better, J9 or better...10/9 is close. And yes KQ, A10, etc may already be there but I'm not H/U or playing 3 handed! Its 6! handed and I have position, but If I knew that I'd get 6 callers if I raised UTG I WOULD!

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01-25-2018 , 07:45 PM

#94

chillrob

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[QUOTE=dead.money;53401175]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Yes, that was a bad result for you on the turn. If you had somehow known only one player would call, it would have been better

so I should be unhappy about investing $8 with a chance to win over a hundred? Of course not! I would have been HAPPIER if they all called, but I'm damn sure not upset with the situation! Point is pro/fish...we aren't putting in 50% on the turn! You're not counting the money from the previous streets! and that's what makes his statement STUPID!

The decision about bet odds only depends on the new money put into the pot on the current street.

I'd suggest reading Sklansky Theory of Poker for more info.

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01-25-2018 , 09:22 PM

#95

DalTXColtsFan

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Seriously people (and by people I mean dead.money), is this micro-small-stakes-limit or BBV?

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01-25-2018 , 09:26 PM

#96

SetofJacks

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,378

So last weekend I was playing 20/40.
Someone raised, I 3-bet, the CO took three to the face, as did the button and both blinds.

At showdown, the CO flipped over 9d4d for a flopped flush, and the BTN flipped over JdTo for a turned flush.

Most live games are filled with these players, especially at the lowest levels. If this isn't true at your games, you're playing in one of the toughest 4/8 games in the world.

Last edited by SetofJacks; 01-25-2018 at 09:28 PM. Reason: Mixed up two different hands from the same session. I didn't have QJs this hand.

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01-25-2018 , 09:28 PM

#97

ZOMG_RIGGED!

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Don’t be fooled. There’s a lot of gold in this thread if you skip over parts from the three idiots

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01-25-2018 , 09:30 PM

#98

ZOMG_RIGGED!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SetofJacks

Big pot big pot.

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01-25-2018 , 10:47 PM

#99

DalTXColtsFan

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Out of sheer morbid curiosity SetofJacks, what casino was that?

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01-25-2018 , 11:48 PM

#100

Bob148

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This is how I think about betting draws:

3 way? maybe if I have the stronger range, yeah I'll bet some pretty weak draws here. If I don't have the stronger range, then I'm probably checking to the raiser and calling bets depending on pot odds.

4 way? I think it takes a solid 8+ outs to bet here without good reason and or reads.

5 way? I think it takes a solid 10+ outs to bet here.

6 way? I want a monster draw to bet here.

etc.

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