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Old 02-04-2020, 10:43 AM   #1
synth_floyd
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Best books for low limit hold em?

I've heard Winning Low Limit Hold 'em by Lee Jones and Small Stakes Hold em by Miller/Sklansky/Malmuth are good. The FAQ lists these two books as well but was wondering if anyone else had other recommendations. I'm sure most of the literature is at least somewhat outdated due to the status of LHE (SSHE is dated 2004 and the 3rd edition of WLLHE is from 2005) as a dying game but just looking for stuff to build solid ABC play in a 3/6 4/8 8/16 environment.
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:11 PM   #2
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Low stakes poker is still loose. Aggression varies by table. You can beat loose passive tables with sshe. Aggressive games not so much.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:20 PM   #3
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

The Intelligenr Poker Player by Phillip Newell in my opinion is best LHE book.

Does not matter if not applicable to low stakes based on how informative it can be.
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:01 AM   #4
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

I really liked the book Advanced Limit Hold Em Strategies by Barry Tanenbaum. Some of the concepts are out of date, but so are most books on this subject.

I think the most important thing to do is to pay attention to the type of game you're in. Some games a maniacal strategy will print, other games a super nit strategy will be best.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:20 AM   #5
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

experience, lots of hours, and fairly loose/aggressive play is a better teacher than any book.
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:51 AM   #6
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

I read through WLLHE and it's pretty good. I played some 3/6 over the weekend and apparently in 2020 there are still games that are pretty close to the way the book describes. Had a guy open fold his big blind in a limped pot, and a bunch more times people would showdown a 2nd best hand because either they didn't know they lost or they thought they were supposed to show their cards at showdown regardless.

It's too bad the rake and tips suck up most of the profitability from these games. Gonna pick up SSHE next.
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:12 AM   #7
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Playing 3/6 live is like playing .02/.04 online. Maybe easier.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:58 AM   #8
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

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Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
I read through WLLHE and it's pretty good.
People still read that book? It's pretty outdated now and considerably tight for most loose-passive games.
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:33 AM   #9
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

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People still read that book? It's pretty outdated now and considerably tight for most loose-passive games.
Agreed. Miller's book is much better. Jones is way too fit or fold post flop.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:16 PM   #10
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

I'm reading the 3rd edition of the book and he does mention several times the changes from the 1st and 2nd editions and usually it is to play tighter.

The main thing that isn't congruous with real world play is his emphasis on the check raise as a key tool. It seems like the times you want to use it are when you are in early position with a strong hand and a big field and want to reduce the field to you and a late position player. So you check, it checks around to the late position player who bets, then you c/r to get all the mid position players to fold because they won't call 2 bets cold.

But if you follow his guidelines, when will you be in early position, with a strong hand AND have a late position player who will bet? If you have a good hand in EP, you will raise PF and then usually bet out on the flop. Otherwise, why are you in the hand in EP? Maybe if you're in the blinds with a junk hand that hits 2 pair or better? And you have to hope for a LP player to bet when there wasn't a PF raise. Because if there was, you'd probably fold your big blind junk.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:05 PM   #11
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
I'm reading the 3rd edition of the book and he does mention several times the changes from the 1st and 2nd editions and usually it is to play tighter.

The main thing that isn't congruous with real world play is his emphasis on the check raise as a key tool. It seems like the times you want to use it are when you are in early position with a strong hand and a big field and want to reduce the field to you and a late position player. So you check, it checks around to the late position player who bets, then you c/r to get all the mid position players to fold because they won't call 2 bets cold.

But if you follow his guidelines, when will you be in early position, with a strong hand AND have a late position player who will bet? If you have a good hand in EP, you will raise PF and then usually bet out on the flop. Otherwise, why are you in the hand in EP? Maybe if you're in the blinds with a junk hand that hits 2 pair or better? And you have to hope for a LP player to bet when there wasn't a PF raise. Because if there was, you'd probably fold your big blind junk.
The bolded is also used as a "clean up your outs" semi-bluff.

Example: Your get a free play in the BB with Axo (where x is a wheel card). Flop does not have an A and gives you a gut draw to the wheel. You checkraise to clear out better aces that missed. You now can win 3 ways: an aces hits, your gutshot hits or a good bluff card like an overcard to the highest card OTF hits.

Pretty standard LHE play.
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:38 PM   #12
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Check-raise is a powerful play that you should use a ton. It protects your range, makes you difficult to play against, and with the right range it gives little information on your hand range.
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Old 02-21-2020, 03:32 PM   #13
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

I'm reading through SSHE now and the difference between SSHE and WLLHE is that WLLHE is aimed at beginner poker players and SSHE is aimed at intermediate players. I read through WLLHE once, played a session, read through it again and felt like I pretty much got everything out of it that I could. It'll take a lot longer to digest everything in SSHE.
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Old 02-22-2020, 05:49 AM   #14
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Sadly, just started reading The Intelligent Poker Player that I recommended earlier and strongly reccomend that book already while only being 1/4 completed.

Will also recommend Further Limit Holdem by Philip Newall which I'll buy ASAP.

Both books may be advanced but should be applicable in modern LHE games, even low stakes based on Game Theory and mathematical concepts which should apply in any game.


PS: Phillip Newell, the author became a millionaire via online LHE & now has a CFA along with a PhD in Economics

Source: The Intelligent Poker Player bio & LinkedIn of Philip Newall.

OP, I'd highly encourage trying to play online or save enough bankroll for at least 6/12 unless playing 3/6 live is only realistic option. Rake from 3/6 live makes it borderline unbeatable in any game unless 100% rakeback.

(NOTE: 100% rakeback no longer exists as propping with that rate online was not sustainable and not enough traffic if it exists still non-US sites OR US sites).

Last edited by maka2184; 02-22-2020 at 05:59 AM.
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Old 02-22-2020, 12:38 PM   #15
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
I'm reading through SSHE now and the difference between SSHE and WLLHE is that WLLHE is aimed at beginner poker players and SSHE is aimed at intermediate players. I read through WLLHE once, played a session, read through it again and felt like I pretty much got everything out of it that I could. It'll take a lot longer to digest everything in SSHE.
Ehhhh... not really. WLLHE is simply out of date. There are some rather bad habits that it can teach you that can stunt your growth. Preflop is too tight for loose-passive games, and by folding that much you don't as much postflop experience to think about and build on in the future.

Yes, if you're a drooler then it can definitely help you, but at this point it's not really a "beginner's" book at all. It's just bad advice that isn't the worst possible advice.

And I started on WLLHE back in... 2001? The game was just quite a bit different back then. The average player was waaaay looser and more passive than even what you usually find today. Since the poker boom, more people have at least a modicum of poker intuition from all of the poker they've seen on TV. Back then, people were utterly clueless and you really could win by just being a little bit tighter than everyone else.
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Old 02-29-2020, 01:38 AM   #16
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

3d edition of which book?
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Old 02-29-2020, 01:43 PM   #17
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Kinda derailing thread but are both these below out-dated or still worthwhile to get?


1. Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players (By Davd Sklansky).

2. High Low Split Poker, Seven Card Stud and Omaha Eight or Better (By: Ray Zee).

Should probably actually finish Intelligent Poker Player 1st but figured both those books apply since there are low stakes games for Stud and High Low split poker whether it be mix games or non-mix games.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:40 PM   #18
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

3rd edition of Winning Low Limit Hold Em by Lee Jones.
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Old 04-29-2020, 03:38 AM   #19
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

I don't understand the second line in your post. What does it mean? Refers to maka 2184's post below.
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Old 04-29-2020, 11:22 PM   #20
maka2184
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Intelligent Poker Player by Phillip Newall should be 1st book to read about ANY poker game in my biased opinion

PS: Think building an organized posts by
DonJuan, Scheids, DeathDonkey, OnTheRail15, Oink, Ninawilliams, ChrisDaddyCool, Bicyclekick, etc more I'm forgetting can be profitable to do whether applicable to low stakes or not.

DonJuan, DeathDonkey, OnTheRail15 ones I think I made for 2018 & 2019 but too busy with market to do in 2020
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Old 04-30-2020, 12:51 AM   #21
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

With all respect maka , reading the newall book is like me when I ask , and they all told me to read TOP ....
And guess what, it didn’t help much cause too much intermediate and advanced info .
beginner should learn with layers imo .

if OP is not a beginner than yes newall is good .

- getting started in holdem ( Miller)
-small stake holdem (Miller, sklansky,malmuth)
- winning in tough holdem games
- theory of poker ( sklansky)
- Intelligent poker player ( newall)
- further limit holdem (newall)
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Old 04-30-2020, 07:36 PM   #22
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

grunch

I have always felt (and often SAY ) that one skill a poker player MUST develop is the ability to identify the table conditions against which ANY book's advice is appropriate.

In particular, I cringe when I hear somebody say a book is "outdated". For example, a lot of people call SSHE by Miller, Sklansky and Malmuth "outdated", but I'll tell you what, tables where 5 to 7 people are seeing every flop and nobody raises without the nuts ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY EXIST in the year 2020. You find one and you'll be VERY glad you took the time to read it.

Range balancing is totally worthless against players who aren't paying any attention to your range. But against THINKING players it's critical.

The problem is a lot of books adopt a mindset of "Here is exactly what to do in X situation" without even describing or considering table conditions. A good example is, "Here's what to do if someone raises" without even considering the playing tendencies of the raiser.

Honestly, you really can't go wrong with ANY of the books listed so far in this thread. The more different books you read, the more different points of view you'll be able to consider and the better you'll get at differentiating good advice from bad.

Hope that helped.
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Old 04-30-2020, 07:39 PM   #23
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maka2184 View Post
2. High Low Split Poker, Seven Card Stud and Omaha Eight or Better (By: Ray Zee).
Assuming you're referring to "For Advanced Players" - if not, disregard.

FWIW I bought that book for the O8 section and thought it was "just okay". I thought the O8 section of Jeff Hwang's Pot Limit Omaha Poker was much better.
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Old 05-02-2020, 08:46 PM   #24
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp View Post
With all respect maka , reading the newall book is like me when I ask , and they all told me to read TOP ....
And guess what, it didnít help much cause too much intermediate and advanced info .
beginner should learn with layers imo .

if OP is not a beginner than yes newall is good .

- getting started in holdem ( Miller)
-small stake holdem (Miller, sklansky,malmuth)
- winning in tough holdem games
- theory of poker ( sklansky)
- Intelligent poker player ( newall)
- further limit holdem (newall)
+1

All those books are great.

PS: Have never read Getting Started in Holdem (Miller)

Yet to finish Further Limit Holdem (Newall).
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Old 05-02-2020, 08:49 PM   #25
maka2184
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Re: Best books for low limit hold em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
grunch

I have always felt (and often SAY ) that one skill a poker player MUST develop is the ability to identify the table conditions against which ANY book's advice is appropriate.

In particular, I cringe when I hear somebody say a book is "outdated". For example, a lot of people call SSHE by Miller, Sklansky and Malmuth "outdated", but I'll tell you what, tables where 5 to 7 people are seeing every flop and nobody raises without the nuts ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY EXIST in the year 2020. You find one and you'll be VERY glad you took the time to read it.

Range balancing is totally worthless against players who aren't paying any attention to your range. But against THINKING players it's critical.

The problem is a lot of books adopt a mindset of "Here is exactly what to do in X situation" without even describing or considering table conditions. A good example is, "Here's what to do if someone raises" without even considering the playing tendencies of the raiser.

Honestly, you really can't go wrong with ANY of the books listed so far in this thread. The more different books you read, the more different points of view you'll be able to consider and the better you'll get at differentiating good advice from bad.

Hope that helped.
+1

All books should be taken with a grain of salt because most LHE game changes day to day if not by every hour even if same stakes and same regs/ players
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