Hi All,

I remixed Leader's charts so that each image is by position. I found this more useful for me.

Also, for each action, I divided the hands into three lines:
1st line --> pears
2nd line --> sooted
3rd line --> unsooted

There may be a few mistakes, so if you notice any I will fix.

Enjoy,
Buzz

hey nice work

TY Buzz!

Do you still play with chart?

98o+ ?

http://www.file-upload.net/download-...eader.xls.html

Hi Mala. Yes i recently put the training wheels back on as I found out I've been super nitty. So yes I now steal with 98o.

edit: unless you mean 98o+ typo

This one is down too..

I'd suggest you play about 5x more hands to see where the vpip/pfr is converging to, and about 20x to 50x or more hands to see where your BB/100 is converging to.

--> http://www.dateiupload.com/files/GvkqdOaC1J.xls

Needs to be stickied IMO

Just a tip from me that helped me out greatly: instead of remaking these charts 1000x different ways, learn them and memorize them in a range way like pokerstove (ie. {88+, ATo+, A9s+, etc} instead of relying on charts and colors. The reason I recommend this is that way its in alignment with how pokerstove shows hand ranges and its easier (for me anyway) to quickly draw on the ranges like this instead of trying to visualize some chart with colors all over the place. Just a tip that helped me out a ton when I first began to think about ranges. Great charts for getting started though.

How to download from this server??????

Thanks a lot for the tables. I'm having a little problem with my pre-flop play, I'm SUPERMEGA Nitty. Let's see if those can help me.

I look forward to a new one of these charts coming out from Ixiterra...

can this be applied to FR?

Look at it this way:

FR LHE 10 handed. SB is seat # 1. You are in the 7th seat. The hand is dealt and the first four players fold. Wadda ya got ? You have a 6 Max game with you now becoming the UTG player.


FR LHE 9 handed. SB is seat # 1. You are in the 7th seat again. The hand is dealt and the first three players fold. Wadda ya got ? You have a 6 Max game with you now becoming the HJ player.

This PF Starting Hand Chart has the UTG opening for close to 14 %. I will leave it up to you to determine what you should open with should you be the EP player in your FR game..

I've started using the chart using the format that Buzz posted. After getting some feedback that I am not 3-betting enough pre I decided to see what this chart says so I stoved the loosest range I could find....on the button against a late position raise

66+
A8s+, KTs+, QJs
A9o+, KQo

According to PokerStove this is the top 12.5% of hands. Looking at my play to date I am 3! around 10.7 from the button overall which tells me that I am probably close since the charts say to raise the top 7.4% against an EP raise.

I guess my question is are these charts still valid? Are there other hands we should be including in our 3! range from the button? Obv we expand or tighten based on villain, but that goes without saying.

I think advocated 17% from OTB actually.


Check out some of Oinks posts really good reading.


Edit: Found this in the stats thread on 3b pre.

I tend to agree in general but I am looking for leaks and figure I should at least baseline my play against generally acceptable pf charts just to make certain that I'm not missing anything glaring.

Against a late position raise I tend to 3! more Ax, suited Kx and some smaller pairs in favour of the RIO hands you have in there. Not that I'm good at poker, but QJ puts me in a bad spot when it makes pears.

These charts really are very basic and pretty outdated. Even using them at 1/2 is probably pushing it.

The amount of variation in my 3b'ing is pretty large based on villain and how much they are opening as well as a good number of other factors. Some situations call for you to 3b ~9% from the BT others it's well into the 20's.

What would you consider to be a baseline button 3! range against an EP raise...and for a CO raise? We can adjust from there based on villain...I'm just trying to ground game right now as I try to make the transition.

WARNING: long post coming. I spent some time trying to answer your questions and then justify my answer with stove ... a useful exercise, probably worth going through the steps yourself with assumptions that apply to the games you are playing, instead of the ones I think I am.


grunch, because I suck at thinking about what range I should be playing.

I've been bouncing between .25/.5 and .5/1 for a while now so I kind of suck. Consider my words more a discussion point than any kind of useful advice.

By EP I'll assume you mean UTG/UTG+1 and estimate the raiser's range at say 99+, AT+, KJs, KQ and sometimes more random paint. Against this I like 55+, A3s+, A6o+, KJs, KQ as a starting point. I see a fair bit of random paint from some players though which quickly makes me widen this range. I'll even stretch into the suited connectors if I think the villain is likely to be passive or fit/fold postflop.

To get a range vs CO I had to play with stove for a while. Part of the problem is in constructing a range for CO: if I'm table selecting correctly, CO is a fish so he limps preflop (thus my 3! range is smaller) or I have some idea how to take pots away from him postflop (making my range wider). That's not really helpful in answering your question though, so I pretended CO doesn't limp and made up a range that might be somewhere near my median, coming up with a 22% range, and got something I like against that:

Compare my ranges for an EP open:

This looks pretty bad, but if we remove EP's capping range we're in much better shape:

.. which suggests my 3! range vs a CO open could be a bit wider.

disclaimer #2: I haven't compared these to Leader's original charts which I tried to live by when I was getting started, that would also be revealing I'm sure.

Long, but welcomed. I'm playing around a bit myself with the ranges. I think I noticed an error in your LP 3! range. You have CO opening K8s+ but you are 3! wider than him at K2s+....that seems counter-intuitive to me. Don't we need to be 3! a narrower range than him in order to maintain our equity advantage?

I could be wrong but I would assume we start with a baseline of how we would play at a certain position, and then come up with a 3! range against that position that is somewhat narrower to maintain our edge?

i dont claim to have the answers either but i'll gladly nitpick yours

the 3 bet stat only counts when facing an open raise. it doesnt matter if CO limps every hand, you will have a 0/0 3bet for that spot.

range vs range isnt the way to go about it. some of your hands suffer terrible vs his range, and are getting propped up by your better hands.

eg J8s has 37.3% here

Not that I'm justifying my ranges (they clearly are a bit wacky), but it is sometimes fine to get in as a dog if you can punish the PFR post flop. Connecty hands are good for this - you can get a four-card flop, b/f dry boards if he's foldy or milk for IO when you hit well. Just something else to keep in mind when deciding whether or not to 3!.

Thus having a limpy CO will tighten my 3! range. While I might raise 25-30% if I see him limp in, I'm getting out of the way when he raises and I'm not holding something in the top ~10%.

Another consideration is CCing or overlimping on the BTN. Yes, passive play preflop: I'm not convinced it's ever a good idea but recent forays into NL have led me to at least consider it. As BTN we don't have to buy position and depending on the blinds we might have a better chance of a 4way unraised pot than a successful iso (hu with dead money), which a lot of hands prefer, especially when villains have tasty OOP leaks.

bump