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Attack? Attack?

01-24-2019 , 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mongidig
Lets say it is the same scenario pre flop. This time the board comes..AsKc3d and we have 4d5d.

If I were to CR this flop, what would be the worst hands villain should peel with?
no pair no draw is a turbo fold for me. I think 22 is close. 44 I'd call.

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He doesn't have a flop 3 bet range IP. How low would you go with the pocket pairs?
I don't check raise any unimproved pocket pairs here.

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Calling the bigger pocket pairs like JJ's TT's etc make sense.
I agree.

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I'd be concerned with going lower than say 88's due to the increased possibility of accidentally getting owned by the BB bluffing range.
I'm not really concerned here. Under the assumption that the big blind has a well constructed draw semi bluffing range that mostly interacts with the flop, we can fold on bad turns, call on good turns, and take free cards if checked to with 88-44.

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Maybe this is not a good board to attack against a good player. He has a ton of A's and K's in his range and this seems like the type of board somebody may take a shot on.
As big blind, I check raise this flop rarely(relatively).
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Would you float/peel a hand like 9dTd if you were the button and got CR'd?
No I think that is very -ev.

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Do we continue to bet the turn UIP if called on the flop after the CR or is this a spot to check with our UIP low equity bluffs?
Vs a button that never 3 bets the flop? I'd give up much more often, particularly with low equity flop check raises.
Attack? Quote
01-24-2019 , 11:11 AM
Thanks Bob! Very helpful.

Lets say I decide to CR the flop and then donk check a blank turn and he checks back. How often now should I be bluffing the river? What cards should I be bluffing with this hand?

Lets say I just called the flop and he checked the turn? Assume the other player folded. How often should I bluff with this hand? I feel like this is the better spot to bluff since it looks like the button is giving up. I feel like I get called more in the first example since he has shown more strength by calling the CR and may be value checking intending to call the river.
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01-24-2019 , 11:57 AM
assuming all wheel draws missed completely:

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Lets say I decide to CR the flop and then donk check a blank turn and he checks back. How often now should I be bluffing the river? What cards should I be bluffing with this hand?
I think you should bluff any unimproved wheel draw that you called preflop(42s, 52s, 54s), but those hands do not appear in my river range at 100% frequency(I call flop sometimes and I check the turn sometimes so this is probably a total of ~ 4 combos which will be backed up by value hands on the river).
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Lets say I just called the flop and he checked the turn? Assume the other player folded. How often should I bluff with this hand? I feel like this is the better spot to bluff since it looks like the button is giving up. I feel like I get called more in the first example since he has shown more strength by calling the CR and may be value checking intending to call the river.
I would bluff 42s, 52s, and 54s again, but those hands are not in my river range at 100% frequency due to flop check raises. This is probably a total of ~3 combos, which will be backed up by value hands on the river.
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03-19-2019 , 07:56 AM
To get back to the original question and in regard to Bob148s remark: not becoming super saturated with bluffs is a thing, because then your range becomes unbalanced and you can be exploited by being raised lightly to charge your draws or by being called down lightly. You want to have a balanced range so your opponents can not exploit you easily.

Therefore you should look at the board structure and determine how many value hands you have you want to checkraise with and then determine how many bluffs/semibluffs you should have to have a balanced range on future streets. In a single raised pot with one opponent a good ratio of valuehands to bluffs is approximately 2:1 because in future streets you will hit some semibluffs to strong hands and your future ratio of valuehands to bluffs will reflect the odds your opponent will get to call.

On this board you can checkraise for value on the flop with middle pair or better. In a rough estimate this will amount to 120 card combinations. So you should have 60 card combinations for your bluffs. You have 3 strong draws in your range: JT, T8, 87 which are oesds or double gutshots. That's 48 card combinations. So you can add a small number of additional bluffs and still be balanced.

When adding more bluffs I like to add hands that can make strong hands on the turn or the river to as many different cards that can come. With 7c5c you add a possible backdoor flush which is good. Looking at your strong draws, you see that you get a straight with K, J, T, 8, 7, 5. You can only expand that with backdoor straights with 4 and 3 (75s). KJ/KT also add the possibility of a good top Pair in later streets.

Another consideration is to realize how often you will hit future cards. If you look at your draw combinations you see that K, J, T make a strong hand for you more often that 8, 7, 5 (because you have offsuit combinations with them and K, J, T pairs will be stronger). This means, when a K, J, T comes on the turn your range will get very strong and you will have not many bluffes. If a 8, 7, 5 comes you will hit that sometimes but your range will still have many bluffs. You should adjust your bluffing range accordingly so that you hit strong hands a bit more often with 8, 7, 5 and a bit less often with K, J, T.

This means: checkraise your strong draws. Add some gutshots with backdoor flush capabilities (you only need 12 combinations). Prefer 75s, 85s, T7s over KJ/KT/J8s. Maybe only call some of the JT combinations so you can also checkraise some Kx combinations. Also KJ/KT can be continued on the turn because of the overcard even if you only call on the flop. Where with the other gutshots you have to give them up on the turn if you don't have the initiative.

You get a strategy so that you can play the widest profitable range the furthest, which is exactly what you want to do with your draws.

Last edited by Rechnerstrom; 03-19-2019 at 08:24 AM.
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