|
Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30) |
10-02-2017, 08:27 PM
|
#1
|
adept
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 904
|
8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Hand 1:
I table change and post in between the SB and BN. Three limps, I check J  2  and six of us see the flop of Q  7  2  (6 SB).
I x as do the blinds, there's a bet and a call and it's on me. Is it standard to call here for 8:1?
Hand 2:
Four limps, SB folds, I x J  3  in BB. Flop 7  3  2  (5.5 SB). X to BN who bets.
I think I'm supposed to xr here but say it folds to BN who calls and turn doesn't improve us. What then?
Thoughts on both hands?
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 12:03 AM
|
#2
|
old hand
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,950
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB
Hand 1:
I table change and post in between the SB and BN. Three limps, I check J  2  and six of us see the flop of Q  7  2  (6 SB).
I x as do the blinds, there's a bet and a call and it's on me. Is it standard to call here for 8:1?
Hand 2:
Four limps, SB folds, I x J  3  in BB. Flop 7  3  2  (5.5 SB). X to BN who bets.
I think I'm supposed to xr here but say it folds to BN who calls and turn doesn't improve us. What then?
Thoughts on both hands?
|
I’d lead both hands and definitely the second one. I’d peel the First as pkayed
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 12:44 AM
|
#3
|
veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,132
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
In a multiway pot I would usually call on the flop, but I would not call on the turn unless my hand improves.
If this is a heads up or 3 way pot, I would lead the flop on the second hand and maybe on the first depending on reads on opponents.
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 11:16 AM
|
#4
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 28,451
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
I’d lead both hands...
|
I wouldn't lead bottom pair into a handed pot.
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 11:43 AM
|
#5
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 5,859
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Leading hand 1 would be terrible.
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 12:01 PM
|
#6
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 28,451
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
I wouldn't lead bottom pair into a SIX handed pot.
|
Because I suck at numbers, apparently.
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 03:01 PM
|
#7
|
old hand
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,950
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
I wouldn't lead bottom pair into a handed pot.
|
He has middle pair In the second hand in a seven high board
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 03:39 PM
|
#8
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 28,451
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
He has middle pair In the second hand in a seven high board
|
Methinks you've jumbled stuff in your head
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB
Hand 1:
I table change and post in between the SB and BN. Three limps, I check J  2  and six of us see the flop of Q  7  2  (6 SB).
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
I’d lead both hands
|
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 04:45 PM
|
#9
|
adept
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canterbury, hopefully sober.
Posts: 969
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
I like a c/f hand one and a bet on hand two. As played id probably x/r.
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 05:08 PM
|
#10
|
old hand
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,950
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
Methinks you've jumbled stuff in your head
|
In the second hand he has J3. On a 732r board. Isn’t that the nuts?
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 06:28 PM
|
#11
|
adept
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 904
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
I’d lead both hands and definitely the second one. I’d peel the First as pkayed
|
Just curious why you'd lead hand 1. I feel like that would be overplaying my hand because I don't see many worse hands calling while all better hands do. I get that it protects my equity by folding out overcards but say half the field folds while the other half calls...what do we do OTT UI (assume it's 3-way)?
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 06:33 PM
|
#12
|
adept
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 904
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyOnTilt
I like a c/f hand one and a bet on hand two. As played id probably x/r.
|
Would calling hand 1 be bad? Seems like we're getting the right price to see the turn.
If we xr hand 2, what do we do OTT assuming only BN calls?
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 10:32 PM
|
#13
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 28,451
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
In the second hand he has J3. On a 732r board. Isn’t that the nuts?
|
I bethink thou art not acknown of thy owneth w'rk.
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 10:41 PM
|
#14
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: betting if checked to
Posts: 4,226
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Hand 1 I check and peel. I don't continue UI.
Hand 2 I check with the intention of raising a late position bet, peeling if there's a bet and several callers, and folding if it's 2 bets back to me (or maybe if there's an early position bettor and no one calls). Once you c/r, I think you should call a 3bet (and probably fold the turn UI) and probably bet/fold most turns unimproved.
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 10:54 PM
|
#15
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,438
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
I check in these marginal mw situations. This allows me to ge more information before I act and therefore gives me more options on how to proceed.
I'd peel hand 1. We should be able to get in a CR if we improve and fold if not.
I CR hand 2 and bet any turn card HU.
|
|
|
10-03-2017, 11:01 PM
|
#16
|
veteran
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,824
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Hand 1: it matters where the bet comes from, and description of bettor. Absent reads, standard play is fold.
Hand 2: Again, description of bettor matters. Generally at lower stakes, I assume most people don't bluff. But, we still might beat some A-hi semibluffs. Also, a high card means we might get a free river; I call.
|
|
|
10-05-2017, 03:50 AM
|
#17
|
adept
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canterbury, hopefully sober.
Posts: 969
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB
Would calling hand 1 be bad? Seems like we're getting the right price to see the turn.
If we xr hand 2, what do we do OTT assuming only BN calls?
|
The reason I don't like calling hand one is unless I read it wrong, you aren't closing the action. I'd hate to make a speculative peel and then have to call another or multiple bets. I'd snap continue if I was sure it would only be one.
|
|
|
10-08-2017, 12:49 PM
|
#18
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Value Town (Pronouns: he/him)
Posts: 8,930
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Grunch
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB
Hand 1:
I table change and post in between the SB and BN. Three limps, I check J  2  and six of us see the flop of Q  7  2  (6 SB).
I x as do the blinds, there's a bet and a call and it's on me. Is it standard to call here for 8:1?
|
You've got five outs to improve, and the board texture is such that these outs are not tainted. You've got a ten percent shot (9:1) of improving on the turn and twenty percent (4:1) by the river.
If you hit, you are likely to get at least one more big bet before a showdown, likely more. Implied odds are certainly enough to justify seeing at least a turn card. Call and evaluate the turn; you might or might not want to see a river card.
Do the same thing you would do with pocket sixes.
I would be inclined to lead the turn unimproved and evaluate if the villain raises. I'd be more likely to continue if raised if the turn card was a 6 or 8 than if it was a big card.
Assuming you get to the river unimproved, you will have a hand that can handily beat a bluff but probably won't get called by a worse one. Check/call.
|
|
|
10-09-2017, 04:01 PM
|
#19
|
slowrolled by tpiranha!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: but I don't know which
Posts: 19,004
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
You've got five outs to improve, and the board texture is such that these outs are not tainted.
|
I worry about taint in the first hand. QJo and J7o are both pretty popular hands, and think we should discount our J outs.
Second hand has 5 outs for sure and probably implied odds on the J out.
|
|
|
10-09-2017, 10:02 PM
|
#20
|
adept
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 904
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
Grunch
You've got five outs to improve, and the board texture is such that these outs are not tainted. You've got a ten percent shot (9:1) of improving on the turn and twenty percent (4:1) by the river.
If you hit, you are likely to get at least one more big bet before a showdown, likely more. Implied odds are certainly enough to justify seeing at least a turn card. Call and evaluate the turn; you might or might not want to see a river card.
Do the same thing you would do with pocket sixes.
I would be inclined to lead the turn unimproved and evaluate if the villain raises. I'd be more likely to continue if raised if the turn card was a 6 or 8 than if it was a big card.
Assuming you get to the river unimproved, you will have a hand that can handily beat a bluff but probably won't get called by a worse one. Check/call.
|
Thanks for this. Your replies make a lot of sense, with one caveat that I would snap fold hand 2 if raised OTT, regardless of what card it was. I haven't seen many/any 8/16 players bluff raise turn so far.
|
|
|
10-09-2017, 10:04 PM
|
#21
|
adept
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 904
|
Re: 8/16 - two bottom pair hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
I worry about taint in the first hand. QJo and J7o are both pretty popular hands, and think we should discount our J outs.
Second hand has 5 outs for sure and probably implied odds on the J out.
|
QJo is definitely a possibility in a MW limped pot but I don't know about J7o. Only the blinds would really have that imo.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:22 PM.
|