Hand 1:

I table change and post in between the SB and BN. Three limps, I check J2 and six of us see the flop of Q72 (6 SB).

I x as do the blinds, there's a bet and a call and it's on me. Is it standard to call here for 8:1?

Hand 2:

Four limps, SB folds, I x J3 in BB. Flop 732 (5.5 SB). X to BN who bets.

I think I'm supposed to xr here but say it folds to BN who calls and turn doesn't improve us. What then?

Thoughts on both hands?

I’d lead both hands and definitely the second one. I’d peel the First as pkayed

In a multiway pot I would usually call on the flop, but I would not call on the turn unless my hand improves.

If this is a heads up or 3 way pot, I would lead the flop on the second hand and maybe on the first depending on reads on opponents.

I wouldn't lead bottom pair into a handed pot.

Leading hand 1 would be terrible.

Because I suck at numbers, apparently.

He has middle pair In the second hand in a seven high board

Methinks you've jumbled stuff in your head

I like a c/f hand one and a bet on hand two. As played id probably x/r.

In the second hand he has J3. On a 732r board. Isn’t that the nuts?

Just curious why you'd lead hand 1. I feel like that would be overplaying my hand because I don't see many worse hands calling while all better hands do. I get that it protects my equity by folding out overcards but say half the field folds while the other half calls...what do we do OTT UI (assume it's 3-way)?

Would calling hand 1 be bad? Seems like we're getting the right price to see the turn.

If we xr hand 2, what do we do OTT assuming only BN calls?

I bethink thou art not acknown of thy owneth w'rk.

Hand 1 I check and peel. I don't continue UI.

Hand 2 I check with the intention of raising a late position bet, peeling if there's a bet and several callers, and folding if it's 2 bets back to me (or maybe if there's an early position bettor and no one calls). Once you c/r, I think you should call a 3bet (and probably fold the turn UI) and probably bet/fold most turns unimproved.

I check in these marginal mw situations. This allows me to ge more information before I act and therefore gives me more options on how to proceed.

I'd peel hand 1. We should be able to get in a CR if we improve and fold if not.

I CR hand 2 and bet any turn card HU.

Hand 1: it matters where the bet comes from, and description of bettor. Absent reads, standard play is fold.

Hand 2: Again, description of bettor matters. Generally at lower stakes, I assume most people don't bluff. But, we still might beat some A-hi semibluffs. Also, a high card means we might get a free river; I call.

The reason I don't like calling hand one is unless I read it wrong, you aren't closing the action. I'd hate to make a speculative peel and then have to call another or multiple bets. I'd snap continue if I was sure it would only be one.

Grunch

You've got five outs to improve, and the board texture is such that these outs are not tainted. You've got a ten percent shot (9:1) of improving on the turn and twenty percent (4:1) by the river.

If you hit, you are likely to get at least one more big bet before a showdown, likely more. Implied odds are certainly enough to justify seeing at least a turn card. Call and evaluate the turn; you might or might not want to see a river card.

Do the same thing you would do with pocket sixes.

I would be inclined to lead the turn unimproved and evaluate if the villain raises. I'd be more likely to continue if raised if the turn card was a 6 or 8 than if it was a big card.

Assuming you get to the river unimproved, you will have a hand that can handily beat a bluff but probably won't get called by a worse one. Check/call.

I worry about taint in the first hand. QJo and J7o are both pretty popular hands, and think we should discount our J outs.

Second hand has 5 outs for sure and probably implied odds on the J out.

Thanks for this. Your replies make a lot of sense, with one caveat that I would snap fold hand 2 if raised OTT, regardless of what card it was. I haven't seen many/any 8/16 players bluff raise turn so far.

QJo is definitely a possibility in a MW limped pot but I don't know about J7o. Only the blinds would really have that imo.