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8/16 - QQ dry side pot otr. Best play? 8/16 - QQ dry side pot otr. Best play?

09-14-2017 , 04:48 AM
I raise QQ utg, EP AI for 2.5 bb, wild loose MP calls, BN and blinds call, I 3b, all call.

6 players total.

5 to flop plus 1 AI (21 SB): K72
SB AI for 0.5 bb, all call. Thought about raising but it's guaranteed that everyone would call and I still wouldn't know where I was at. Figured betting turn would define things better.

4 to turn plus 2 AI (10.5 BB main pot, 1.25 BB side pot): A
Bad card obv. But X around.

4 to river plus 2 AI (10.5 BB main pot, 1.25 BB side pot): T
X to MP who bets into a dry second side pot; folds to me.

Never seen MP before but apparently she's a stud player who was known by one of the 8/16 regs. BW in her late 40s.

Best play?
8/16 - QQ dry side pot otr. Best play? Quote
09-14-2017 , 09:08 AM
I like this fine as played. With the all ins it's pointless for MP to bluff river which he has to know given your description.
Fold river and move on.
8/16 - QQ dry side pot otr. Best play? Quote
09-14-2017 , 11:17 AM
It being guaranteed that everyone will call is an argument for raising the flop, not just calling the all-in.

You say you won't know where you are at if you raise. You aren't ever going to find out where you are at with the all-ins until the showdown. Suppose the flop were T72 instead of K72, with the same action: wouldn't you raise here?

If you can't put them on hands, put them on ranges. How is QQ doing against their ranges on this board? Hint: K72r is about the dryest unpaired board imaginable. Your hand won't be good anywhere near all of the time, but it will be good much of the time, and the apparent fact that everyone is going to call no matter what means that you will get value from every hand that you beat. Sometimes you will be value-owning yourself against a player holding a K. A lot of the time you won't. Besides, if everyone is going to call and one of the all-ins holds a K, raising here will give you something to win.

As played on the flop, the turn card should indeed keep you shut down. Thinking in terms of ranges, an ace is a lot more of a scare card than a king for QQ because unless a villain's range has been severely decapitated by their action, an ace is the single most likely card for any of them to have in their hand.

I am guessing that you actually did fold, and MP showed a hand like 87, the all-ins couldn't beat it and you would have won a big pot if you called.
8/16 - QQ dry side pot otr. Best play? Quote
09-14-2017 , 11:47 AM
I should add that the fact that the board is so dry lends some weight to waiting for the turn to bet, because it is rather more difficult for worse hands to outdraw you.

But you should throw the "I still won't know where I am at" argument away and never pick it up again.
8/16 - QQ dry side pot otr. Best play? Quote
09-14-2017 , 11:02 PM
Flop - I would raise here. With a "wild loose" MP behind me, who is probably going to call with a wide range (or even raise wide depending on how wild), and with people that are "guaranteed" to call with everything, I don't think this is close. You are missing too much value from trash hands and we want people to pay more with med/bottom pairs, to hit sets, and to chase BD A high FDs, don't we?
You should bet because you think you are ahead, or bet because you can pick up the pot if you are behind, not to "define things better."

Turn- I probably just check if I missed flop raise

River- I'd bet/fold but as played I'd reluctantly fold to an unknown
8/16 - QQ dry side pot otr. Best play? Quote
09-15-2017 , 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
I should add that the fact that the board is so dry lends some weight to waiting for the turn to bet, because it is rather more difficult for worse hands to outdraw you.

But you should throw the "I still won't know where I am at" argument away and never pick it up again.
Yeah I should have raised flop, but I was definitely going to bet turn until the Ace showed up.

So say I played the hand better and raised flop, everyone calls, turn checks thru and the same thing happens otr: X to MP who bets. Best play?
8/16 - QQ dry side pot otr. Best play? Quote

      
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