Changing my game up a bit and have slowed down the aggression factor a ton. So far I cant really tell if its working or not and if it isn't its not like I would get many fold either way.

8-16 with 12/24 overs full ring

Hero has JK in the BB and its 6 way action

EP, EP+1, MP, and CO Limp. SB completes & Hero checks. (6sb)

J94

Checks to UTG who bets, CO 2 bets and all call (18sb)

Turn 6

Checks around (9BB)

River 2

Checks, Hero bets, all call but SB who folds (14BB)

I think I may have been to passive with this line but I was out of position and have been trying to slow my agro play a bit.

Should I have c/r the turn or bet it???

I'd raise pre w/ a decent hand against awful players and never stop betting without a good reason not to. Lol @ 4 callers.

I'd raise pre
As played I bet flop and hope someone raise so I can 3!

It's already been said.

Raise pre-

As played, bet/3b flop.

As played, x/r flop.

I wouldnt raise this hand pre out of position against 5 players.

i think you gave up a considerable amount of value in this hand

i dont raise pre but i raise KQo so w/e

i would raise pre flop.

as played, i'd x/r the flop.

You guys know someone raised in late position on the flop, right?

I think reraising is a close decision in that light.

Cr or check/3 bet flop

Well we've underrepped our hand. If CO is typical 8/16 (and especially if he is ultra-typical 8/16 and waits with all of his monsters), we beat a ton of both players' range.

IME, 8/16 and lower players tend to be passive, period, and any raise at any point is terrifying for a hand worse than 2 pair. But I'm also on the east coast, where 8/16 is full of people who haven't learned the "expert" techniques of free carding, slowplaying every monster, etc. If this 8/16 plays closer to 20/40 on the flop, then I agree we should be slamming in a 3 bet here.

Yeah, that's totally different from California 8-16. Here, the flop raising range is going to be Jx, maybe 9x or AK/AQ, maybe TT and 88, and QT and T8. They wait for the turn with their monsters. Here, this is close to a snap 3-bet without a read that the villains have a stronger range than typical.

Hand is played fine on every street. I might check the river since worse hand could value bet for you, or you could save a bet if it goes bet/raise behind you. 4 people in between you and CO who could technically have a butchered flush.

There are 8/16 games on the east coast??

Rarely goes. When it does, I did things like this when playing (albeit I was somehow worse back then compared to now). I do miss the days where I was capable of bet/folding two pair

i think you can be too foldy/passive to fish aggression overall.

Why did you check the flop?

Initially my plan was to check raise. The CO was a bit on the donk everything light side so I was hoping for a bet from him so I could raise and thin the field a bit. But that didn't work out so well when he 2 bet and KJo is not a three betting hand with a field that big. The turn put the flush out and so betting out against a made hand was a good possibility and I opted to see what the field did. After it checked around I assumed no flush so I bet out.

Raising the BB pre with a field this big is not something I keep in my inventory. KQs AJs yes but KJo with a field that large no way.

this first simulation is representative of what i hands i think people in this game are limping.

*******Equity*****Win*****Tie
UTG+1**16.49%**15.12%***1.38%*{ 88-22, A9s-A2s, KTs-K7s, QTs-Q8s, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, ATo-A5o, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 98o }
UTG+2**15.98%**14.64%***1.34%*{ 88-22, ATs-A2s, KTs-K5s, QTs-Q7s, J7s+, T7s+, 96s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, 43s, ATo-A2o, KJo-K9o, Q9o+, J9o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o, 76o, 65o }
MP3****16.05%**14.68%***1.38%*{ 99-22, ATs-A2s, KJs-K2s, Q5s+, J7s+, T7s+, 96s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, 54s, 43s, AJo-A2o, KJo-K9o, Q9o+, J9o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o, 76o, 65o }
CO*****15.55%**14.31%***1.24%*{ 99-22, AJs-A2s, KJs-K2s, Q5s+, J6s+, T6s+, 96s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 53s+, 43s, AJo-A2o, K9o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T7o+, 97o+, 86o+, 75o+, 65o, 54o }
SB*****14.77%**13.66%***1.12%*{ 99-22, ATs-A2s, KJs-K2s, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 93s+, 83s+, 73s+, 63s+, 53s+, 43s, 32s, AQo-A2o, K6o+, Q8o+, J7o+, T6o+, 95o+, 84o+, 74o+, 64o+, 54o }
BB*****21.15%**19.75%***1.40%*{ KJo }


this is a more conservative estimate.

*******Equity*****Win*****Tie
UTG+1**17.08%**15.77%***1.31%*{ 88-22, A9s-A5s, KTs-K9s, QTs-Q9s, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, ATo-A9o, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, 98o }
UTG+2**16.53%**15.23%***1.30%*{ 88-22, ATs-A2s, KJs-K9s, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, 43s, ATo-A9o, K9o+, QTo+, J9o+, T9o, 98o }
MP3****16.17%**14.91%***1.26%*{ 99-22, ATs-A2s, KJs-K5s, Q7s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, 54s, AJo-A9o, KJo-K9o, Q9o+, J9o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o }
CO*****15.78%**14.58%***1.20%*{ 99-22, AJs-A2s, KJs-K2s, Q8s+, J8s+, T7s+, 96s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, AJo-A5o, K9o+, Q9o+, J8o+, T8o+, 97o+, 86o+, 76o, 65o }
SB*****15.45%**14.36%***1.09%*{ 99-22, ATs-A2s, KJs-K2s, Q4s+, J4s+, T4s+, 94s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, 43s, 32s, AQo-A2o, K8o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T7o+, 96o+, 86o+, 75o+, 64o+, 54o }
BB*****19.00%**17.32%***1.68%*{ KJo }

either way, we're up against a field of players with wide, capped ranges and we have more than our fair share of equity.

Ding ding ding.

Get the equity while it's easy. Let's average the ranges and say we are at 20% 6 ways. Raising puts 0.4 SB more in the pot as our share versus what we invested. Pretty cool. Plus, raising is fun and good for building an image of crazy gamble type.

To add to the math posted by Rodeo and JDRs reasonings....

I would raise pre if the following conditions are true:

1) villains are likely to be weak, passive and predictable.
2) We likely can play (near) perfectly against them
3) our hand figures to be the best hand right now

We flop a pair or better 40% of the time, when we do that we are a big front runner to win a big pot.

When we don't flop a pair(60%), we know how to play perfectly against them, for example:

1) complete miss with 2 overs we check call 1 bet or check fold to 2 bets.(they are passives we don't call 2 overs vs a raise)
2) we flop strong draws we bet and start building a pot
3) we flop gutshot draw but don't have 2 overs....we know how to evaluate and call with correct odds

In short, with a decent hand, there are lots of upsides to play a bigger pot vs multiple weak passives...

Sure, it's easy if you are all in. If everyone has those ranges and you are playing NL, and they will all call your all in bet, go for it.

Otherwise, those equities don't tell the whole story. You have terrible position for the rest of the hand, with a hand that doesn't play very well multiway or in big pots. I wouldn't raise this, and I think most players I respect would not either. It is debatable, but the debate does not consist of just showing a speculated preflop equity calculations.

The big issue is exactly this, even more than the equity. Broadway cards are extremely easy to play out of position in a multiway pot when you are the pre-flop raiser.

I raise KJ and check 88 in this situation. It's not simply the equity. The 88 is hard to play, the KJ is easy.

Having said that, I raise this 100 percent of the time. Basically, if you are in a game where several people limp in and you get to exercise your option in the BB, that's really all the information you need. You'd need a special case (e.g., the first limper's range is AA-KK and is 100 percent limp-re-raises) for me not to raise this.

IMO betting the flop when the pot has 5 bets is much better, specially on a semi wet board like this. If you think you are way behind you don't have outs to call the raise at 4:1! If top pair and draws are in their range why not 3 bet? Most players raise top pair at 8/16.

Preflop shouldn't be the focus IMO, it's thin and our post flop mistakes can make the play a loser anyway.