8/16 Live, I am new to the game and readless.

I post in CO.

3 or 4 limp to me, I raise 9 10 , button calls 2 cold, sb folds and BB calls.

6-7 to the flop: 15sb:

4 8 9

BB bets, all call, I raise, button calls 2, all call.

6-7 to the turn: 14BB

10

all check, I bet, button calls, BB calls, two others call.

River: 5 players: 19BB

Q

All check, hero.....

id check but thats just my gut

too many villains imo

The river is crap. Check.

Agreed with the too many villains.

looks like a queen of hearts

i'd bet

I think it's reasonably close but my intuition tells me it's a check. It's a hard board to get called by worse on and people will have tarpy straights/flushes a reasonable amount.

I think your money goes in better when you bet it.

Am I the only one that doesn't raise the flop?

Likely so.

OP hit his hand and it's vulnerable. Why would he just call here?

Because if he raises, then he's building a bloated pot with a weak, vulnerable hand? He's not folding out any better hands, and it's not a value bet. For these reasons, I just call and re-evaluate the turn.

If he's in early position, I could see raising to protect against the rest of the field, but in cut-off with that many players calling the big blind's donk bet, I can't see how this raise is ever a good idea.

i don't think the raise is bad - i see your point about waiting for a safe turn, and that's fine too. the problem is there are a ton of dudes in front of us to act, and a ton of meh turn cards that will make us change our plan on the turn. and also, if turn is 3 rainbow, and bet and a ton of calls to us, then i don't want to raise either

here, we have top pair, and at least like eleven other dudes in the pot don't. even if someone is ahead of us we have more than our fair share of equity. also we have some nice backdoors where if we raise flop and everyone checks to us on gross turn either with nothing or with tarps, we can check back (like broadway clubs, etc)

I don't see how it's remotely close to a bet.

5 callers to the river -

44,88,99,1010,JJ,QQ,67,J7,J8,J9,J10,QJ,Q10,Q8,Q9,A xh,8xh,9xh,

All have you crushed.

I don't mind raising the flop. The pot is already bloated with the preflop raise, might as well keep on building as long as we might have the best of it. I know we aren't folding out better hands, but we are repping a high pair here, and there's a good chance by raising it will get checked back to us on turn, then we can reevaluate, and either check and take a free card for whatever reason or continue with our dominant display of aggression and bet it.

You are correct that he's not going to fold better hands. It's also likely- given pf action- that OP has the best hand and that he should charge draws the maximum to do so. (In addition to TP, he's got two bd draws.)

The bet didn't come from OP's immediate right, so there's no hope that he'll be able to raise a favorable turn and face the field with 2 cold if he just calls the flop donk. OP correctly got his money in as the flop favorite.

do you think it's likely anyone has 44, 88, 99, tt, jj, qq? it's fine to list hands that beat us but if it's really unlikely no one has them based on the action and how everyone played their hands, it's not as useful

What planet is this game being played on where OP's opponents are limping an 8/16 game with some of those hands and playing the flop with a few other of those hands and playing the turn with yet some more of them and checking the river with the rest?

C'mon man. Let's hand read just a bit.

ETA: Sorry bbb. You beat me to it while I was composing.

Okay maybe the more unlikely but still probable of the bunch I listed were 44,88,99,1010,JJ,QQ.

But everything else I listed seems like a reasonable range of villains hands given the action.

67,J7,J8,J9,J10,QJ,Q10,Q8,Q9,A xh,8xh,9xh

Crushed.

Just so I'm clear as to your recommendation for OP's river action, you're maintaining that he should c/f?

I think he should definitely check the river.

The only person that can bet behind is the button, and if he does, he can see the action by villains, reevaluate and then make his decision.

could you also list a range of hands we are currently beating that villains might call with in this decent sized pot?

There's not a lot of them.

89, 810 maybe. I can't see 8x,9x calling down. 710 maybe I guess, I wouldn't but whatever, I guess it's cool since pot is so big.


.

Given the size of the pot, folding for 1BB is out of the question.

Even if the button bets and all call, the pot will be something in the region of 23-1 and closing the action.

I also dont think I can call 2 bets, as a bluff raise into X villains is very unlikely and 12-1 isnt very attarctive given the board texture.

My thinking on the river was that not many worse hands could call, but then the pot was SO big, I figured people would look me up with a pair, any pair in the hope I was FOS.

All in all I think a bet was rather hopeful.

Against a field of unknowns, I have top pair, position, and fold equity. I think not raising is a mistake.

We raised pre flop with a good drawing hand, we hope to flop a strong draw, but here we hit the 2nd prize of top pair and a couple of back doors.

A better hand is unlikely, maybe J9-K9. I imagine A9 would be raising, most every overpair 'should' or would have raised pre flop, 10,10 or JJ are maybe candidates but QQ+ is definately unlikely.

WTF? Who would bet here...

you got to check... straights might not be betting because of the flush, flush might be early and just waiting for the straights to bet.

2-pair? You kidding me?

Of course, check-call if it isn't bet and then raised.

Oh... a huge range of hands will call.... and all of them will be beat by the best hand, which likely IS NOT 2-pair. So what does it matter that 3 worse hands will call your bet when you're not going to be taking down the pot.

i actually think this is a fairly close spot. i am encouraged by the fact that no one has donked. i am discouraged by the fact that the button, who took 2 to the face on the flop and stuck around on the turn, is still behind us. i think i check but if i was last to act i would make a thin value bet.

Am I missing something here? You have a weak top pair, you don't have absolute position, and the only person that's ever considering folding is the button. Change this from fixed limit to no-limit, or even pot-limit, and I like the flop raise. Knock it down from 17-handed to heads up or 3-handed, and I like the raise. Right here, though, I don't know... I don't like it.

To get back to the original question, though, check the river and call a bet if the button throws one in there.