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8/16 JTs in BB 8/16 JTs in BB

07-27-2017 , 01:34 AM
Main villains here:

MP - has not been at table long, but I think he table changed. He seems to be pretty tight and has not been in any hands I remember since joining the table.

MP+1 - loose, limps and cold calls a lot. Seems to call down too much but capable of folding.

I'm in the BB with JcTc.

Folds to MP who raises, MP+1 cold calls, folds to me in the BB and I call.

Flop Js Th 7c 6 sb

I check (intending to C/R), MP bets, MP+1 calls, I raise, MP 3 bets, MP+1 calls 2 and I call.

Turn [Js Th 7c] 4s 7.5 BB

Given the slight read I have on MP, I think I'm ahead of most of his range.
He could have JJ, TT but there is only one combo of those out so that is a very small part of this range. More likely to have AA-QQ, AJ, KJ, QJ, maybe something like KQ. Could have 77 too. The flop 3 bet could also be a free card play with AK or AQ.

MP+1 probably has a T or some kind of a straight draw, but he could have almost anything.

The turn card did not help MPs range. Should I have 4 bet the flop and bet the turn? Should I donk the turn on what looks like a safe turn card? Should I check/call or check/raise the turn?
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-27-2017 , 01:45 AM
I just cap the flop. But as played, x/r the brick turn.
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-27-2017 , 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude
I just cap the flop. But as played, x/r the brick turn.
+1
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-27-2017 , 01:55 AM
I would cap flop. There's a lot of turn cards where you're not gonna want to check-raise, so just mash the raise button now and fire the blank turns.

As played, I would definitely check-raise the 4, but if you're even slightly concerned the turn might check around then I think you already have the answer to your first question.

Last edited by TheDarkKnight; 07-27-2017 at 02:01 AM.
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-27-2017 , 10:53 AM
What do you do if you lead out and get raised by MP? By MP+1?
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-27-2017 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_holle
What do you do if you lead out and get raised by MP? By MP+1?
You mean after capping the flop and betting the turn? I'd call down, but I don't think that 3-betting is necessarily bad. It really depends on villain at that point, and how prone he might be to overplaying an overpair.

JJ/TT/77 = 5 hands that beat us

There are more combos of just AA than that. But not many players will raise the turn with one pair (especially after some type of draw comes in, even if you're pretty much never on that draw).
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-27-2017 , 12:37 PM
1. You should definitely note who table changed. Table changing is a huge tell that they think one table is better than another. If you can figure out why they think your table is better, then you know how to make it worse for them. If you're not sure whether they table changed or prebought chips, just assume that people with a non-round number of chips table changed.

2. I also cap flop and lead turn, calling down if raised. Raising the turn after you 4-bet the flop is really strong, but note if they called the 2-bet on the flop and raised turn, they're much wider.

3. In your analysis, don't forget to include the possibility that villain has AK/AQ and wants a free card.
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-27-2017 , 02:36 PM
He did include 3.

It's kind of awkward if you cap flop and get raised on a blank turn. You've shown a ton of strength and he doesn't seem to care. I'd go into calldown mode against most players but I'd consider three betting if I had some extra information that might lead me to do so.

However, if the turn is a Q, K, or A, and you get raised, you can only call and pray.
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-27-2017 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
You mean after capping the flop and betting the turn? I'd call down, but I don't think that 3-betting is necessarily bad. It really depends on villain at that point, and how prone he might be to overplaying an overpair.

JJ/TT/77 = 5 hands that beat us

There are more combos of just AA than that. But not many players will raise the turn with one pair (especially after some type of draw comes in, even if you're pretty much never on that draw).
You're forgetting 98. 16 combos, unless opponent would only play it suited, then 4 combos, about 6 combo average I'd say with no reads.

Still way ahead and should cap-lead the turn.
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-27-2017 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavesofliberty
You're forgetting 98. 16 combos, unless opponent would only play it suited, then 4 combos, about 6 combo average I'd say with no reads.
Right. That's definitely possible in MP+1's range (and I agree with skewing towards the suited combos). MP "should" never have that here based on OP's read.
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-28-2017 , 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
1. You should definitely note who table changed. Table changing is a huge tell that they think one table is better than another. If you can figure out why they think your table is better, then you know how to make it worse for them. If you're not sure whether they table changed or prebought chips, just assume that people with a non-round number of chips table changed.
My experience is the table changers are the same people who are changing seats all the time to try to change there "luck". Sometimes reasonable players will change tables if the game gets too tight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
2. I also cap flop and lead turn, calling down if raised. Raising the turn after you 4-bet the flop is really strong, but note if they called the 2-bet on the flop and raised turn, they're much wider.

3. In your analysis, don't forget to include the possibility that villain has AK/AQ and wants a free card.
I did mention AK-Q, but I thought AA-QQ were more likey with the 3 bet.

My plan on the turn was to check/call the apparent blank turn and donk a safe river card because so many rivers check thru.

Unfortunately the turn checked thru and nobody called my river bet (river was some small card). The MP said something about AK after he folded, but didn't show. No idea what MP+1 had.

Probably should have been more aggressive in this spot.
8/16 JTs in BB Quote
07-31-2017 , 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeca
My plan on the turn was to check/call the apparent blank turn and donk a safe river card because so many rivers check thru.
FWIW I hate this line. It's only maximally exploitative against a single opponent who has a made hand and likes to raise the flop with the intention of checking back the river. That's a very rare combination. Most flop raisers either barrel or take a free card on the turn.

Plus, you are multiway. When you are multiway, you want to charge draws when you have a monster. And to do that, you need to just mash the raise button. You got free carded this hand because you didn't do that.
8/16 JTs in BB Quote

      
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