8 handed Live 8/16. MP is a loose passive fish. The person you hope to have in your game. Calls down with almost any pair and draw. This is COs first hand at the table, I haven't played with him before but hes a decent regular from what I can tell.


MP limps, CO raises, I 3! from the button with A K blinds fold. MP and CO call.


Flop 3 players (10 sb)
J 8 3
MP and CO check. I bet, both call.


Turn 3 players, (7.5 BB)
J 8 3 K
MP checks and CO check. I bet. MP calls. CO raises. Hero???

This seems like it should be a fold to me, I mean what can we beat here? Especially with the fact that it's the first hand at the table and doesn't have reads. Thoughts? Call down hoping hes betting a monster draw or a two pair we can improve to beat, or fold?

you have no reads and you're going to fold TPTK in a big pot for 1 bet?

"I mean what can we beat here?" - you have no reads, and you can beat a draw, a worse king and have outs vs. two pair.

Also you can chop with other ak, of which there are 6 combos in his range. I would call down.

Don’t fold.

My first thoughts were call or 3 bet.

I would just call. If I knew more about the CO I might consider 3 betting and checking the river if I don't improve. I'd love to make the MP pay dearly to out draw us or fold a hand with outs in this huge pot. The problem is if I was 4 bet by an unknown CO It would be ugly because he could be over playing a two pair combo of which I have outs to improve. That being said, it's unlikely we will get 4 bet in this situation.

Actually I changed my mind. I would 3 bet. The CO didn't cap pre so that reduces a set of JJ's a little. People at these limits probably don't cap a set of 88's or 33's on this turn and maybe not even JJ's. I think it's time to be optimistic and protect your hand.

Big street raises mean business. Three bet is suicide. Call and eval river.

This is limit hold 'em. You're not supposed to do a ton of folding with pairs or draws. I'm not saying your opponent is not a fish, but your reasons for flagging him as such and your worry that you should fold TPTK in this big pot tells me you are not as showdown bound as you probably should be.

As far as the turn action goes, I think folding and 3-betting are both out of the question.

He was a fish because he open limped hands like K8o and Q4s. And called down to the river with any pair and any draw in pots large and small.


This was my first 8/16 session in a while and just wanted to get others thoughts. For the record I did call down and lost hence me second guessing myself.

Looking at the comments it's kind of crazy I didn't even think about him having AK as well. Still lots of work to do. Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

You’re getting 11.5:1, so you’re not going to need to win the pot that often to make the call correct. With that being said you’re going to lose quite often here.

Yeah. That's why I called him down. I'm almost always losing but I think he c/rs with a big draw enough that I always have to call down. It just doesn't feel good to do it.

Thanks all for all the insight.

+1

Never winning vs you & Liferebooted if I was OP but I call down and donate all rivers unimproved.

You're getting 21/4 to call him down. You should win often enough unimproved to warrant a call and can improve with an A or K.

I do see the fact that CO is willing to check raise two opponents including the "passive fish" as a problem, but I would still call, especially at 8-16.

This is such a sick spot, but 3-betting is lighting money on fire as 9FS says.

I doubt you’re good very often here but given you have no read I think you have to call and pray. Pot is big, hope this is a fur coat hand.