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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 09-03-2017, 06:20 AM   #1
DTLB
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8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

Hand 1:

I raise AJ utg. New player who looks like a fish calls next to act in EP, SB calls.

3-way (7 SB): KJ5
I cbet, both call

3-way (5 BB): 8
I bet, both call

3-way (8 BB): 3
SB x, on me. Best play?

Hand 2:

I raise AQo in MP, HJ and BB call

3-way (6.5 SB): KQ5r
I cbet, both call

3-way (4.5 BB): Tx
BB x, on me. Best play?

Thoughts/recommendations?
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:34 AM   #2
jdr0317
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

Hand 1: bet fold

Hand 2: at higher stakes I probably check here. At these stakes, I still think we could bet fold (assuming we aren't getting the price to spike a jack on the end).
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:10 AM   #3
AlanBostick
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB View Post
Hand 1:

I raise AJ utg. New player who looks like a fish calls next to act in EP, SB calls.

3-way (7 SB): KJ5
I cbet, both call

3-way (5 BB): 8
I bet, both call

3-way (8 BB): 3
SB x, on me. Best play?

Hand 2:

I raise AQo in MP, HJ and BB call

3-way (6.5 SB): KQ5r
I cbet, both call

3-way (4.5 BB): Tx
BB x, on me. Best play?

Thoughts/recommendations?
(Haven't read other responses yet.)

Hand 1. What would you do with QQ or K2 here? (You wouldn't have K2 here; probably the weakest K you should have is KQ.) What I mean to say is you have a strong hand here and can expect to get calls from weaker Js or worse. Bet for value, and fold to a raise. Sometimes one of the villains is going to show up with a K and win. Good for them.

Hand 2. Bet/call and evaluate on river if raised. You don't want this board to check through. If you get called and the river is a brick, bet again, again for value.
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Old 09-03-2017, 01:40 PM   #4
e_holle
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

Hand 1: what are you getting called by? I doubt you will see a 5. A worse J is possible, but a bad K is much more likely. Maybe something like 99 or TT, but will they make it to the river versus a preflop raiser that should have hit that flop? They might, but so might QQ. I think QQ balances the 99 and TT. If you bet and get called, be prepared to lose most of the time.

Hand 2 : bet and evaluate a raiser. Would he raise a J here, or does he have two pair or better?
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Old 09-03-2017, 02:49 PM   #5
Aaron W.
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB View Post
Hand 1:

I raise AJ utg. New player who looks like a fish calls next to act in EP, SB calls.

3-way (7 SB): KJ5
I cbet, both call

3-way (5 BB): 8
I bet, both call

3-way (8 BB): 3
SB x, on me. Best play?
You can bet-fold this or check behind. I think you're right in that gray area. Your preflop raise probably knocked out a lot of the weaker Kx hands and you've possibly only got a few Jx hands that are calling you down.

What's working against a value bet here is the fact that the flop doesn't give you a lot of extra random things to call around with. If there were a flush draw, then the 8 could have paired someone up and give them something to call down with. As it stands, the only flop draws are straight draws, and none of them hit anything.

Quote:
Hand 2:

I raise AQo in MP, HJ and BB call

3-way (6.5 SB): KQ5r
I cbet, both call

3-way (4.5 BB): Tx
BB x, on me. Best play?

Thoughts/recommendations?
Bet-fold and check on the river. If you feel like you have to call a raise when you bet because someone might be bluffing you, you're better off check-calling.
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Old 09-04-2017, 05:56 AM   #6
monikrazy
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

Hand 1 seems like a pretty standard checkback unless we are vs real droolers. No king is folding.

Hand 2 is a cool spot, think its normal to balance here. Something like bet 40/check 60. Will be interested in hearing some of the discussion.
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:55 AM   #7
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

People are advocating a "check back" in hand 1, but if I'm reading correctly OP is between the two players which makes it kinda interesting.
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:26 PM   #8
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by samdash View Post
People are advocating a "check back" in hand 1, but if I'm reading correctly OP is between the two players which makes it kinda interesting.
Correct. EP is still to act after me.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:58 PM   #9
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

Hand 1 seems like a slam dunk bet and I don't expect a raise from a lone king. If we value cut ourselves, so what?

Hand 2 is a tough one. I tend to bet/call here but I'm unsure if this is correct.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:18 PM   #10
SetofJacks
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

People call down so light that you should be betting both of these hands.
In hand 1 I'd expect to get calls on the river from nearly any pair, and especially Jx. We might even get looked up by AQ when they decide that they want to see what you "sucked out on them with". Occasionally someone will have a K, and they'll keep doing what they've been doing, which is to just call. Not a big deal, and to them you'll look like an idiot for betting a jack into their "obvious" king.


On hand 2, we'll get calls from a lot of QJ and JT, and we have outs if we get raised. A Jack on the river gives us the nuts, and a Q will give us the best hand a lot of the time, and an A will give us the best hand some of the time as well.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:25 PM   #11
Aaron W.
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

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Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
People call down so light that you should be betting both of these hands.
In hand 1 I'd expect to get calls on the river from nearly any pair, and especially Jx. We might even get looked up by AQ when they decide that they want to see what you "sucked out on them with".
Be a little wary of this. It's not that worse hands can call, but that there are more worse hands that can call than there are better hands that can call.
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:12 PM   #12
phunkphish
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
Hand 1 seems like a pretty standard checkback unless we are vs real droolers. No king is folding.

Hand 2 is a cool spot, think its normal to balance here. Something like bet 40/check 60. Will be interested in hearing some of the discussion.
No one is trying to fold out a king in Hand 1. People have wide calling ranges on the river.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:12 PM   #13
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Re: 8/16 - 2 middle pair hands

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Originally Posted by Aaron W. View Post
Be a little wary of this. It's not that worse hands can call, but that there are more worse hands that can call than there are better hands that can call.
Also, unless you absolutely have the read that a player will never fold a pair to one bet, or will always raise top pair, you have to weight the probabilities. I.e., for many small stakes players, a king will simply show up at this showdown much more often than a 5 will. We have a blocker to a J, of course. Similarly, some players will raise their flush and 8 out straight draws, which again will take hands out of their range that you want to be there to call you down.

Plug it into Equilab/Stove or count some combos. Try to figure out what your opponent's range has to look like to justify a bet.
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