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6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. 6/12 Live: Villain bets dark.

07-15-2009 , 03:22 AM
SB is a "new" player to the table - played a few hands (including coldcalling 2.3 bets from the SB preflop with 72o and then winning the pot when Q72 flopped), trashtalked everyone in the hand, and then left for 3 orbits and just returned. He's late 20's Hispanic, gregarious, claims to have won $600 the night before.

Hero is MP2 with AK
1 limper, Hero raises, 1 caller, SB calls, BB calls, limper calls.
Flop [10 SB]: A84
3 checks, Hero bets, 1 call, SB raises, BB calls, limper calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 call, SB caps, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 call.

SB bets dark.

Turn [13 BB]: 3
Hero calls, LP calls.

SB bets dark.

River [16 BB]: K
Hero ... ?

Small, made flush is my gut feeling, but this guy really seems like the sort who would try to bluff at the pot by using the "play so wild that you'd never put me on a bluff" line. If he shows down Ax for TPNK, I wouldn't be surprised.

Could I have played this differently to avoid this spot? Call the flop check-raise only? Semi-bluff raise the turn? Semi-bluff raise the turn dark?
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 03:34 AM
Call.

Hand is played well imo.

River is def a cry call as players who bet dark usually have a strong hand although I wouldn't doubt there's a possibility he has AxQh or A8 or A4 maybe even 6h5h. I'd probably call if river even if it didn't give us top 2. Another note is you get some layover for LP calling.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 04:04 AM
nh
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 06:20 AM
Nice hand, I dont fold this even UI. he could have AxXh and went batsh*t.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 07:24 AM
plz don't semibluff turn. Your hand has great SD value and equity to improve, get there without spewing. Raising river is bad; risking two bets to win one. When he has air, he'll fold; when he has a flush, you might get 3banged. Even ppl with two pair don't play their hand that strongly on a 3flush board. River is a crying call.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 12:07 PM
CALCLALLCCALLLCALLLCALL
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 03:34 PM
This may very well be a small flush and even though you will probably get 3 bet, I, vs this opponent type only, like the dark turn raise gambit.

There is no value to a river raise as even wildmen will fold hands you beat but raise or call when they are ahead.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 04:22 PM
call the river. everything else is good.

no point in raising river because you got a guy left to act still and there's a chance you get that overcall. may as well make it cheapest for yourself since it sure sounds like SB has a flush. And if he is on a pure bluff, then he can't pay off a river raise anyhow.

i wouldn't raise the turn either because getting it heads up isn't a huge deal. the guy behind you is drawing near dead if he has a small heart or a lower pair.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 04:47 PM
I just call the river but I'm not convinced that's not weak. In this spot, I like the fact there is a player behind us to get overlay from, but if this was HU, does our river play change? Sure, villain definitely won't pay off with air, but there are a bunch of hands that we've now pulled ahead of (A8/A4/84/etc.) plus Ax hands that will pay us off. And with us holding the nut flush card it seems unlikely we'll get 3bet here by a flush/set. I sometimes think these spots are ones I potentially might get too overaggresive with cuz I feel so weak simply calling with top two.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
I just call the river but I'm not convinced that's not weak. In this spot, I like the fact there is a player behind us to get overlay from, but if this was HU, does our river play change? Sure, villain definitely won't pay off with air, but there are a bunch of hands that we've now pulled ahead of (A8/A4/84/etc.) plus Ax hands that will pay us off. And with us holding the nut flush card it seems unlikely we'll get 3bet here by a flush/set. I sometimes think these spots are ones I potentially might get too overaggresive with cuz I feel so weak simply calling with top two.
if it were heads up and nobody to get overcalls from then i would want to get one more raise in.

the funny thing is the only hands we pull ahead of on the river are A4/A8/48. now admiteddly these hands are in villain's range because he is a coldcalling donk, but they dont make up lots of combos. so really the situation doesn't change all that much from the turn to the river. IOW, if we are willing to raise the river, then we may as well raise the turn when we still have outs if we're behind to a set/smaller flush.

it would be a lot easier to decide if villain weren't a new player and we had a better idea of his flop capping range. i mean, im going into calldown mode even heads up versus most live 4/8 players, but 20ish sociable dudes generally aren't scared to overplay their hands, which makes me think there is still value in getting another raise in.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 05:09 PM
Call. Watch drooler overcall behind. Then either:

1. Tune out for donkey braying showdown of 7 high flush

Or

2. Rub it on your titties.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse8888
Rub it on your titties.
Missing two steps imo
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-15-2009 , 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse8888
Rub it on your titties.
Coincidentally, not as outrageous as you might have intended!

tl;dr
[X] Jesse's alma mater got mentioned at my table.
[X] Jesse's name got mentioned at my table.
[X] confirmed sup bro
[ ] got to rub chips on my titties

Yesterday I decided I need to move up to where they still don't respect my raises, so I put submitted an application for the Lifetime Winner at 6/12 Award. Two players at the table (at least one is a regular but maybe both) were introducing themselves to each other, and I am involved with a pot so I didn't really catch much of their conversation aside from the name of a certain college which Jesse attended and the name "Jesse."

Name-dropper looks like he's heard of the internets so I inquire whether this is the same Jesse who posts on twoplustwo. It is positively confirmed that someone just name-dropped "Jesse quad eights" at my table. As I was cutting out another two big bets to 3-bet my nut straight, I casually mention that I've read your blog, 'cause that's what ballas do, we 3-bet the turn while having side conversations like it ain't no thang. I decided that rather than going with the obligatory "sup bro" I will take the $200 I am destined to win and rub a chip on my titties for maximal douchebaggage and epic LC material.

Unfortunately, the river paired the board and I watched helplessly as EP call-call-check-call-call-check-call-caller deftly cut out 6 chips and announces, "hay guyz i just made a ****ty full house". In the ensuing chaos of watching him stack his chips and making sure to positively reinforce playing UTG with 96o, I completely forget that I owed someone a "sup bro." By the time I remembered, it was far too weird to say out of the blue, so I let it slide.

So whichever one of you was seat 9 (later seat 8) at table 1 last night, sup bro.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-16-2009 , 12:24 PM
Without the third player behind, it's a river raise/call a three bet. With the potential overcall, it's an easy call for me.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-17-2009 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBAA
Without the third player behind, it's a river raise/call a three bet. With the potential overcall, it's an easy call for me.
what range do you put the aggressor on?
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-17-2009 , 03:16 PM
i'd call the river. i'd also be super tempted to raise the turn dark.
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07-18-2009 , 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBabar
what range do you put the aggressor on?
From description of villain, I think he could a very wide range here, from air (which would likely fold to a raise) to a flush (which might reraise or just call if small) to lots of Aces or under pairs. I think I'm winning and will get a raise called more often than I'm losing here.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-18-2009 , 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBAA
From description of villain, I think he could a very wide range here, from air (which would likely fold to a raise) to a flush (which might reraise or just call if small) to lots of Aces or under pairs. I think I'm winning and will get a raise called more often than I'm losing here.
okay, so why not raise the turn then?
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-18-2009 , 02:51 PM
Well, I think a turn raise if also fine, although I'm not particularly eager to ko the third player. The value of keeping him in with weak aces that have three outs or second best flush draws makes failing to raise not so bad. But raising turn is good as well -- Certainly hero has an excellent chance to be ahead and a nut flush redraw if behind and if they both call a raise, it's sweet. On the other hand, if the third guy folds and the villain three bets, we'll wish we'd called.

The river does help the hero, because it puts him ahead of weak aces or little two pair, so I'd certainly raise there as played if not for the third guy.
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote
07-18-2009 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by James.
i'd call the river. i'd also be super tempted to raise the turn dark.
Can we please start with this?
6/12 Live: Villain bets dark. Quote

      
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