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5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check 5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check

11-01-2009 , 10:30 AM
Hi,

I raise KQo UTG 6-handed and blinds cap, is my fold standard?

Cheers

Jean



Poker Stars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.4 SB) Hero is UTG with Q K
Hero raises, 3 folds, SB 3-bets, BB caps!, Hero folds
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-01-2009 , 11:10 AM
I dump it, because we raise preflop we are not comitted to continuing.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-01-2009 , 11:25 AM
We have position of both blinds, but that is about all we have going for us...

Most 6 handed games live at the level I play at this is pretty standard fold, but for online IDK...

I think the question is if it was KQs would the answer be any different... That would be interesting to an extent...

So I fold, but Im probably wrong...
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-01-2009 , 12:28 PM
I don't fold anything I open UTG for 2 more. In this spot you're getting 5:1 and have position on 2 people with a hand that can flop very strong (as can my whole utg range)... so no I don't think this fold is standard.

If they're enormous nits or something then it's closer.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-01-2009 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nchabazam
I don't fold anything I open UTG for 2 more. In this spot you're getting 5:1 and have position on 2 people with a hand that can flop very strong (as can my whole utg range)... so no I don't think this fold is standard.

If they're enormous nits or something then it's closer.
Ok, so what ranges do you give them? The ranges I've come up with give me below 10% equity.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-01-2009 , 12:54 PM
I fold the offsuit KQ unless theyre maniacs doing this often. KQ suited is probably worth a call.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-01-2009 , 07:42 PM
reads help. 5/10 6m on stars is pretty aggro so i'd probably call.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-01-2009 , 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nchabazam
I don't fold anything I open UTG for 2 more. In this spot you're getting 5:1 and have position on 2 people with a hand that can flop very strong (as can my whole utg range)... so no I don't think this fold is standard.

If they're enormous nits or something then it's closer.
What do you consider for SB's 3! range of a UTG PFR?

What range would you give a BB for cold-capping?

You certainly can't make a large mistake folding an offsuit hand here. I think paired or suited I'd agree that you must call. OTOH, this is either the worst or 2nd worst hand in your range; folding the weakest hand you play is good. The fold is quite standard; if you're a LAG and going to try to jam your way to victory, that's fine, but hardly standard play.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-01-2009 , 11:25 PM
3 bet can't be so bad
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-01-2009 , 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MafioItalio
3 bet can't be so bad
When are you gonna 3-bet?
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-02-2009 , 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougL
What do you consider for SB's 3! range of a UTG PFR?

What range would you give a BB for cold-capping?

You certainly can't make a large mistake folding an offsuit hand here. I think paired or suited I'd agree that you must call. OTOH, this is either the worst or 2nd worst hand in your range; folding the weakest hand you play is good. The fold is quite standard; if you're a LAG and going to try to jam your way to victory, that's fine, but hardly standard play.
Obviously without reads it's pretty pointless, but if we assumed these are just ABC (for 5/T online) TAGs then i'd imagine they'd have fairly wide ranges. BB's range usually ends up wider here just because they'll often wtf cap a ton of hands they're going to play anyways and since they have a BB in there it's not going to be as snug as usual...

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.272% 35.48% 02.79% 3355374 264186.50 { 77+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 1: 41.851% 38.18% 03.67% 3611112 347091.50 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+, KQo }
Hand 2: 19.877% 16.75% 03.13% 1584292 295665.33 { KQo }

If we snug up BB's capping range to JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ then we still have over 17.5% equity (if we leave SB's range that is). SB's range is very in line with what I'd expect most people to 3bet here... interestingly if you leave the tighter BB range KJo has 1.5% more equity than KQo, and KTo has .5% more equity than KJo..

QJo also has enough equity to call if I do open it UTG (as I do on some tables and would be the bottom of my offsuit range)... and obviously suited hands and pairs are snap calls. ATo is also the other end of my opening range and will have enough equity to call here as well getting 5:1. I used to open A9o utg in most games... but that wasn't really doing anything for me. So ya, my default in this spot is to call if I have a hand that can flop a straight. I'd be tempted to fold A9o in the HJ here if I opened and the same action happened, but I probably wouldn't.

So being in position here, I'd need a read that the SB AND the BB were both very tight... if the SB's 3betting range were a fair bit tighter and the BB was capping tight then you could find a fold. I also wouldn't hate a fold if it went like HJ 3bet/CO cap just because that range is going to be similarly tight... although we do get 1.5 more SBs in there PF to compensate for our positional disadvantage. I'm not really sure how to quantify positional advantage/disadvantages.

So ya I don't think it'd be a huge mistake to fold this, I think you should fold A9o if you open it, and if the blinds are tight (i.e. this is a live game so ranges are super snug) then KQo is a fine candidate for a fold.

FWIW I fold a fair bit OTB when I get 3bet/capped... all my crappiest opening hands... my UTG range is just so strong that I wouldn't be mucking any of it to a cap in most situations. Obviously if someone other than a huge nit coldcalls that makes any of these hands an even easier call.

edit: I didn't mention anything about playability, but I think KQo is really easy to play postflop and we can get a lot of money in good on a number of boards... which is part of the advantage of being in position.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-02-2009 , 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nchabazam
edit: I didn't mention anything about playability, but I think KQo is really easy to play postflop and we can get a lot of money in good on a number of boards... which is part of the advantage of being in position.
I agreed with basically all of your post until this, which is what makes it a fold for me.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-02-2009 , 08:06 PM
If you had opened on the button, there's enough chance that they're doing the standard re-steal/re-re-steal pissing contest with worse hands, so I'd call. Since you raised UTG and they still didn't seem to care, you're probably in bad shape. Fold is good.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-02-2009 , 08:25 PM
This is a standard fold for me, and I agree with Dos that if we call preflop, the only way we're getting a lot of money in good is if we flop a straight. If a lot of bets go in when you flop top pair, it's hard to like our hand. Even if you flop JTx, your equity isn't going to be as good as it normally would be with the OESD + overs.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-02-2009 , 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan42
Since you raised UTG and they still didn't seem to care, you're probably in bad shape.
If your opponents are good enough to realize this, it is the key point for me. We're supposed to have a narrow range, and guys are shoveling money in the pot. FWIW, Nchabazam's difference may be that he's a lot wider in his ranges (iirc, he plays about 8% wider VP$IP and PFR than I do). If you play 36/30, it is likely that you'd find ranges to be quite different than a 30/22 or a 25/18 player. Adjusting to the image you have created as a sLAG, LAGTAG, or TAG is a key thing; if your image is that of a nut, folding to getting capped could be bad. Of course, you also have to understand which opponents play well enough to adjust.

That said, I can't really think of a worse hand playing-wise than KQo.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-03-2009 , 03:34 AM
Live, easy muck. Online, I never fold this. Last time UTG raised, I 3-bet KJs, button capped, SB cold-called and then donk'd a J-high flop.

Hands?
UTG: A8s
Button: 22
SB: TT

Ranges are too wide in crazy SH online games to be folding premium hands like KQo, IMO.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote
11-03-2009 , 12:24 PM
i'd fold.
5/10 capped hand preflop; fold check Quote

      
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