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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 04-29-2009, 01:24 PM   #1
DougL
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4k Post - It isn't a milestone

Quote:
Originally Posted by DosXX View Post
My advice is to bet when you have it and check when you don't.
This really hit home with me, maybe you could sticky this and we should go back and read it from time to time.

How often do we feel the need as "advanced players" to put in extra action where it isn't warranted? Sometimes our opponents ask us to bluff them out of pots, to b/f, or make some other play. OTOH, most of the time, isn't betting when you have it and checking when you don't the best play?

I've been playing a lot of .5/1 online poker, and the good players there have a lot of FPS in them. Think about a 5/10 or 10/20 live game that is slightly TAG if you don't play online. The things that make me shake my head from the decent-ish guys in no particular order:

1) They bet/raise ties, 100%. Ax on a KK442 board is giving extra action. They'll pay off a re-raise.
2) They'll semi-bluff (value raise?) showdown hands. Guy is in a 4 way pot as the PFR with JJ. He leads the flop and loses one. BB donks and EP folds on the turn on a T72K board, he's raising it most of the time. Maybe there is a better example, but I constantly think "why didn't he just call down?"
3) They love to raise impossible river bluffs. I open QQ and get HU with the BB. He'll call down on a K942K board and he'll c/r the river. I'd call A-high here too, and win more than my fair share with both. Oddly, if he had the king he'd...
4) They love to donk. I know that live players (likely due to more MW pots) do this a lot. However, if you take my hand from 3 and donk the K and c/r your bluffs, even an idiot hand reader can play pretty well against you.

Just makes me think, ABC poker is the new tricky play. Add in a touch of LAG and you'll have them shaking their heads.
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:41 PM   #2
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

vnh. stop giving away our secrets.
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:54 PM   #3
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

I'm all about ABC poker, unless I've got TT on a K9x two-tone board and get raised on the flop.

Srsly tho, abc wins the monies when you're a stranger in a decent game.
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:56 PM   #4
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

I'm all about ABC too. Except once or twice a session where I seem to think I can take advantage of my always-has-the-goods image and find myself 3 barreling with UI A3o (see thread).
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Old 04-29-2009, 02:00 PM   #5
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

I think that the area of play that most of us improve as you progress is in making slightly thin value plays, having a better understanding of our true outs, and understanding the showdown value (or lack) in tighter spots. Maybe the next step is IFE, but given the lack of fold in most of my current opponents...

I still keep catching myself raising some guy on the turn with a hand I should just show down. It is like a disease.
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Old 04-29-2009, 02:01 PM   #6
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

Definitely a good thought. There always seems to be this struggle for good players to control their aggression levels. I am often times the most passive player (correctly so, I think) at the online 20/40 tables because I am the only one not "value" raising JJ on the turn with a KQT6 board, 3 ways.

Doug, your habits as a poster have certainly been interesting to watch over the last three years. You went from sporadically posting for 5+ years to being one of the most prolific posters on several different forums. It seems that your 1000th post was only about a year ago and you have quadrupled it. I hope you find the desire to keep on making solid contributions. Although like James said, you are certainly helping to train the next wave of LAGs that are coming to take my money.
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Old 04-29-2009, 02:02 PM   #7
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I'm all about ABC too. Except once or twice a session where I seem to think I can take advantage of my always-has-the-goods image and find myself 3 barreling with UI A3o (see thread).
I actually think this is different, as long as A-high can be the best hand. Raising (even light) and c-betting is normal. Against your live opponents, their hands may converge to better hands. Your play may become a "hopeless bluff" vs. his certain pair. Do this in an online game, and some guy will call you down with the nut K-high.
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Old 04-29-2009, 02:08 PM   #8
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

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Originally Posted by DougL View Post
Do this in an online game, and some guy will call you down with the nut J-high.
The truth.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:19 PM   #9
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

Doug:

I am hereby stating my intention to join you in Vegas over the Fourth. I trust we'll join each other in a fr 30 game where we can both apply our ol skills. I'm bringing my Tommy Bahama shirt, Rainbow sandals and some khakis.

I'll introduce myself right after the game and buy you a beer or three.

Love,

doc
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:57 PM   #10
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

My advice is to be you when you have it and check when you don't.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:12 PM   #11
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

Very nice post. Shame it was post no. 4004 and not 4000. Or does that counter change automatically in old posts?
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:32 PM   #12
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

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Originally Posted by XAmsterdamX View Post
Very nice post. Shame it was post no. 4004 and not 4000. Or does that counter change automatically in old posts?
It changes every time he makes a post. If you look at all his posts in this thread they all way 4,004.
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:19 PM   #13
Nchabazam
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

I always feel like a fish when I play online since to some degree I almost never change the way I play. If I'm playing 2/4 6m I so rarely take lines that are anything besides "standard," but the truth is that those lines are the standard because they bring home the cheddar. There may be times when I miss a bit of value by not going for a turn c/r (after having initiative) or turn my hand face up by donking a river scare card... but since I don't play a ton with any one player I'm not particularly worried about balance... I just want max value. I also don't really bluff very much, and almost never bluffraise the river... but usually it's because I no longer really expect people to fold much of anything.

So I guess I try my best to play ABC poker since at low limits it's really what brings home the cheddar. That being said I play very loose PF which at times can require some adjustments from ABC play (last live session I had 4 different tight regs try to bluff me on Axx flops... seriously). But even the adjustment to that is quite simple.. just call down lighter.

I know I've read it elsewhere where someone has said that you'll never be good at poker until you realize that people aren't always trying to make moves on you, and sometimes you just have to risk getting owned because most of the time they have it. It's not exactly what has been said in this thread, but folding in spots where you're up against a LPP raise on a scarecard with a marginal holding is something that is almost always correct, but takes a certain level of discipline and just being able to accept the fact that if some loose passive takes his 1 shot a month at me on this card then he has earned the pot.

So to some extent I used to play better in certain spots before I ever discovered 2+2/online poker.. before I learned that people semi-bluffraise the turn and before I really gave much consideration to taking fancy lines.

So ya +1 to playing ABC in settings where most of your opponents aren't particularly sophisticated and there aren't big metagame implications against very frequent villains.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:51 PM   #14
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

You are putting this in the Micros to aren't you.

Seems like there is some weird mojo over there. I probably contribute my fair share - which is why we need more common sense like this.

Sarge
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Old 05-02-2009, 02:45 AM   #15
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Re: 4k Post - It isn't a milestone

word.
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