4-8 Villian Bets out of Turn -- our action.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,079
This is based on a 4-8 hand played at Canterbury. Facts changed slightly (explained below).
I have QTo (no clubs) in the BB.
4 callers to me, I limp.
Flop is TTK (2 clubs) – I bet, one caller.
Turn is 9 clubs.
I decide to bet. I'm counting my chips on the side, and Villian calls “Raise”.. Villian has been generally tight, He might have JQ, might have a flush. I ask the dealer my options, and he rules that there was no movement of my chips towards the line, so I hadn't yet bet (correct ruling in my view), so I can still check or bet.
Analysis -- I'm not folding my set (with 10 outs to a FH) in a 4-8 game. However, it makes no sense to bet unless I'm prepared to three-bet when the raise comes in (and call 4 bets) when it's re-raised. Plus at that stage, I don't see folding the river, so betting commits me to 5 bets. Checking costs me one bet to call, and one bet on the river if I don't hit.
(actual hand -- FWIW, the only difference here is that Villian only has $18 in front of him -- so it can't cost me 5 bets no matter what I do. Given that I'll call this on the river (and that he may be bluffing), I might as well make my bet and get all the money in now.)
Note -- My observation in the 4-8 game at Canterbury, when someone only has 15-20 chips, they often just throw their money in the pot at any opportunity, so the chance of a bluff here is pretty high.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 400
Bet. He has 18 chips and you have redraws if he is ahead. If he just calls, bet/call river. If he raises you, put him in for 2 more.
I hate angleshooting with a passion b/c it happens in the Bay Area way too much. If you suspect he said something out of turn to make you not bet, call the floor.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 182
It could be a made hand, but I think given the circumstances you're almost as equally likely up against something like 8T or KJ.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 36,797
Well, we did intend to bet, so I'd just go ahead with that plan. Since he's shortstacked and probably in f*** it mode, I'd just get all the money in now; otherwise I'd go into calldown mode.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,922
Bet just as you was going to, if you have the best hand he can protect it, don't upset Karma by being THAT guy.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,378
Yeah I'd go ahead and bet/call if he had more behind.
I'm not going to let him trick me into checking so that he can check behind.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,548
I also hate angle shooting so there is 1 more rule that you need to ask about and that is whether the verbal action obligates him to wager if it is checked to him. I think some tourneys make you bet but it might be a good rule for a live game if it doesn't exist. There are a lot of people that think it is really fun to get a free card that way.
The fact that he is short makes your decision easier. Just bet as intended and put him in if he raises. It is tougher if he has lots of money but I still think betting is good. It certainly makes your hand look a lot stronger. You can then complain that his verbal action is binding if he just calls.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,965
Sweet, I guess I'm the angle shooting nitbox (not really but for purposes here). I check.
Live game, tight guy eager to raise, and just got an information heads up.
I'm also donking any River improvement.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,548
The guy that verbally checks out of turn so that he can get the free card is the angle shooter. You, the guy that wants to bet, is the victim. That is, unless he really wants to raise and you can take advantage of his anxiousness. Maybe you are just a trusting soul (good) and I am too suspicious (bad).
