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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 11-24-2017, 01:35 AM   #1
lllusionist
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4/8 live hand lol

No real reads except the button is a dealer somewhere (allegedly competent)


Somebody got up so there's two bigs and small on the button.

Hero opens Ad10c UTG
Folds to button who calls (V1)
One of the blinds calls (V2)
Flop Jc Ah 9c (3.5bb)
V2 checks
Hero bets
V1 raises
V2 cold calls
Hero calls
Turn 7s (6.5 bb)
V2 checks
Hero checks
V1 bets
V2 folds
Hero calls
River Jh
Hero checks
Villain bets
Hero calls

On the turn I'm weighing him towards a flush draw or Q10, but I also think he's barreling river on bricks.

Should I be doing anything differently?

Real question is whether or not to raise the turn if I know he's on a draw, would I want to get two bets there? If I made it two bets there I was thinking he wouldn't barrel river so I get paid the second amount when he misses, except his two bets go in with equity as opposed to the last bet on the river being a pure bluff the other way.

Last edited by lllusionist; 11-24-2017 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 11-24-2017, 02:42 AM   #2
lllusionist
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

Can't edit my post for some reason but I forgot to mention the table was 6 handed
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Old 11-24-2017, 02:57 AM   #3
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

I'm inclined to think this is the best way to play this hand. It's a little weak/tight but it's not like your hand is a monster on the turn given the action. You should be ahead most times but you often aren't. I'd be totally happy with the amount of money that went into the pot.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:31 AM   #4
DalTXColtsFan
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

I play it exactly the same way too. If he has a set or a J, that's so rare it's just really bad luck. He's much more likely to have two pair (which you have hidden outs against) or a monster draw (some sort of flush draw with a backdoor straight draw or perhaps even better).

I don't know what the action is like in your casino, but at the majority of the 4/8 tables I've played at the villains don't know how to raise a draw. I would need to actually SEE a villain raise a draw before I'd even consider putting him on it.

The point of that being, since you're playing readless I don't think you played the hand weak/tight at all. You correctly chased your outs on the flop and turn and correctly defended against being bluffed out of a big pot on the river.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:49 AM   #5
qotd
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

If this table was anything like the 4/8 tables I was playing last weekend, you played it how I would have. Would have been tempted to bet the river though.
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Old 11-25-2017, 01:34 AM   #6
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

Raise pre, bet/call the AJ7tt, x/c the 9 and x/c the T w/ AT? Looks fine to me. Might lead river as BTN should have very few 8's, so we're unlikely to be raised. He'd need like A8, 8cXc or KcQc.

Do you have a club? Not having one makes it marginally more likely he's just barreling.
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:44 AM   #7
DalTXColtsFan
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
BTN should have very few 8's,
The river was Jh, not an 8 - what would an 8 have to do with it?
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:43 PM   #8
BigBadBabar
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

i think he misread the board and is assuming the river put up a card that would give anyone with an 8 a straight
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:37 AM   #9
jdr0317
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBabar View Post
i think he misread the board and is assuming the river put up a card that would give anyone with an 8 a straight
Yes. It was a ten originally, it looked like .
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:32 AM   #10
HUMBLE.
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

With a third player cold calling well played. This line prevents you from getting multiple bets in at an equity disadvantage. You also collect a bet when the villain feels obligated to bet river with a bricked draw. Your hand also benefits the time a club or a straightening card falls where if you did actually have the betting lead, you would have bet and called a turn raise drawing thin.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:17 PM   #11
DalTXColtsFan
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

Just thought of something I didn't before - is BTN capable of coldcalling AJ, AQ or AK? I don't get 3-bet very often at the tables I play on, in fact I can't remember the last time I was 3-bet, and I've seen villains coldcall and even limpcall these hands and stronger hands.

I don't think the possibility of BTN having one of these 3 hands changes how I play the hand. I'm c-betting top pair when I'm the PFR 100% and I'm never folding to a flop raise that's 1 bet back to me closing the action.

The turn and river are close. We're getting 7.5 to 1 on a turn bet, and 8.5 to 2 to see a showdown if he bets the river. So we have to have or make the best hand what, 19% of the time to break even? It's close, but I think we have to show this down. Worst-case scenario the competent villain knows he can't bluff us off top pair.
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Old 12-14-2017, 03:39 PM   #12
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

I usually play bigger than this so if the average player doesn't raise with draws (games I play most raise with flush or straight draws or even mid/btm pair depending on villian). Assuming most players would raise I would 3b the flop.
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:34 PM   #13
bipolarbearclaw
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

With the club in your hand i would 3ball the flop
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:38 PM   #14
bipolarbearclaw
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

Also, just because you 3bet the flop doesn't mean you're obligated to bet all turn cards like clubs. Also seems likely that AQ and even AK call down your flop 3 bet. If raised on the turn you may be able to release some river cards.
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:14 PM   #15
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolarbearclaw View Post
With the club in your hand i would 3ball the flop
Having the Tc reduces the number of Tx straight draws and Club draws villain may be semi bluffing with.
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:49 PM   #16
UpHillBothWays
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

what's the worst offsuit ace that you'll open in this game 8 (9? i'm not sure how many started before somebody got up. i.e. 10 handed or not?) handed? what's the worst suited ace that you'll open in this game 8 handed?

in loose games i actually toss a lot of these hands in EP. but i'll open up more suited ones.

typically in a standard 20+game i'm at around 88+,AJs (maybe down to ATs), AQo+, KQs+. that's utg. if utg folds i might add in AJo if the game isn't super loose. but if the game IS super loose where it's 5+ players to a pot for 2-3 bets then i'm opening every suited ace from UTG and down to JTs. basically i'm playing up front like i would in a tighter game from late middle position (with a few minor changes obv)

point is, offsuit ace hands aren't nearly as good in a loose game when you're out of position.

that said, i like the way you played this hand (but it does show why it's not great to have medium offsuit aces. you have no redraw and can't really 3b this on the flop).
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:31 PM   #17
lllusionist
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

Wasn't able to edit my original post, but this is definitely outside of my full ring utg open range, but we were 6handed at the time, and with the extra blind posted I felt this was a necessary open.
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:15 PM   #18
asmitty
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Re: 4/8 live hand lol

I think this is fine against a normal 4/8 lineup. In bigger games (where people are more likely to raise draws and barrel off, or alternatively to raise flop bet turn and check river UI for a cheaper showdown with weakish made hands) I would probably 3bet flop.
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