Hey all,

I've been playing 3/5 No Limit full-time for a few years now, and have just now decided to try my hand (pun intended) at live 3/6 and 4/8 LHE games -- usually while waitlisted for a No Limit game I am looking to play. I decided to start doing this for 2 reasons.

1. Low limit LHE players accrue comp dollars at the same rate as mid-stakes NLHE players.
2. Even with there being more players/hand, LHE tables still see more hands/hr and are more likely to trigger a casino/card room's bad beat jackpot.

However, I have found that playing in such an environment where I am no longer able to use my stack as a weapon has proven to be a difficult transition for me. Specifically, I find that I struggle most with how I structure both my Cbetting range on the turn and calling range on the river when facing a river bet.

Barreling the Turn

I am not used to being locked into a turn Cbet size of only 20-30% of the pot in multiway situations. It feels like the most sensible approach to this spot would be to fire the second barrel with a narrow-ish, polarized range that is more heavily weighted towards the value portion of my range vs. weaker players, while distributing my bluffs more evenly vs. stronger players who have shown that they are not as willing to chase when being laid poor odds. Thoughts on this?

Calling the River

On one hand, I know I should be calling down much lighter on the river being laid 6:1 odds or better (another new spot I am not used to). However, the competing factor here is that most players -- whether or not they think in terms of ranges -- all know that their bluffs are highly ineffectual on the river. As a result, I have found that a lot of folks at these games will incorrectly over-adjust by severely underbluffing the river to an extent in which I frequently find myself gritting my teeth and folding while being laid fantastic odds against what I am sure is a stronger-than-equilibrium range!

Minimum defense frequency would dictate that I am massively overfolding away a serious amount of EV in many of these spots on the river where villain is betting for value 9 out of 10 times. Additionally, what most players consider to be "river value" seems to fluctuate more wildly in LHE games than in No Limit games. How should I adjust to a player pool with such a widely varying concept of value?

Hard to gather what you are doing wrong without posting any hands. All I would say is that in a 4/8 or 3/6 game, most of the time you have to make the best hand at showdown in order to win. Pre-flop is very important and so are thin value bets.

Just from what you are posting it seems like you might be underestimating pot odds. Without seeing example hands it’s hard to tell for sure but the pot odds you posted don’t seem right to me.

FYI don't think 3/6 & 4/8 LHE is possible to beat rake.

I cbet turn at very high %. Not applicable in 4-6 way pots @ 3/6 & 4/8.

River, think WTSD (Went to Showdown) is supposed to be quite high vs NL. 41 WTSD seems valid per Giantbuddha Stats below. W$SD 50+

NOTE: Below from 6max LHE.

***** Official SSSHLHE Stats Thread ***** - Small Stakes Shorthanded Poker - Shorthanded Poker Forum
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...thread-329049/

You’re going to be betting a lot more for value very thinly, especially on the river. Don’t cold-call PF raises unless it’s going to be 6-7 ways and you have a pair or something like JTs (but I probably just 3-bet that so whatever). But it’s mostly 3-bet or fold PF.

Post some hands and we’ll go from there.

Yeah, the rake at 3/6 is pretty rough. I really feel bad for the dealers; as they only get tipped $1 at a time...if at all! As far as table dynamic though, pretty much everyone in these games is an OMC type to one extent or another:

• No one open raises preflop without QQ+ or AK.
• No one raises postflop without the immediate nuts.
• All players become honest with their bets when the turn or river pairs a draw-heavy board.
• Every hand has 4+ players seeing the flop.

You make a good point about slowing way down on the turn when it is still 3+ handed. Bluffing at that point just seems like a suicide mission.

I have, however, found that Cbetting the flop on dry boards with my entire range seems to be a good auto-profit spot in these games. Although it seems to work for now, I fully anticipate that, as I move up and players start check-raising me off my equity, I will eventually have to abandon such a simple Cbetting strategy.

Man though, it does feel strange to be playing in games that seemingly haven't evolved much since 2004.

40+% WTSD though...

That's going to take some getting used to.

Yeah, that's something I'm going to need to work on. There have been a few spots in the past few days where I checked back hands on the river that easily could have squeezed an extra bet or two of value from my opponents. I'm really hoping that fine-tuning this skill will help me not be so polarized on the river in my No Limit games as well.

I'm sorry I don't have any hands. Is there even a live hand reconstructor out there?

Per Googling, "Live Poker Hand Replayer"

Poker Hand Converter & Replayer - Upswing Poker
https://upswingpoker.com/convert/

PokerPoise - Home
http://www.pokerpoise.com/home

I generally use Holdem Lab on phone. Equilab / Poker Stove on laptop for hot / cold equity.

Solvers, think default now is Monker & PIO. Think a lot more now, would PM DonJuan for more info although solvers require desktop with great RAM at minimum


40%+ WTSD% is standard in 6max. Much higher 3max / HUHU.

9 handed 3/6 LHE, think WTSD can be lower especially considering how bad rake is. Unless you have epic comps via 3/6 LHE, think playing NL is more profitable unless just playing 3/6 LHE to wait for seat live.

OT: Recommend Intelligent Poker Player by Phillip Newall. Have hard copy but Kindle version should be great too

https://www.twoplustwo.com/books/pok...-poker-player/

Winning in tough holdem games also a good recommendation

As for hands, I’ve posted dozens of hands. Usually just use my notes app. Write it down after I play a tough/big hand.

Comps and the BBJ are not reasons to play a rake trap game, unless the comps are very good or the BBJ is very large. If you have other reasons for playing low limit, great, but your posted reasons aren't exactly great ones.

In NL, you cannot be so ambitious with value betting because you need to worry about pot control and, on the river, getting raised off your hand. In limit, you can never get raised off your hand. This allows you to bet with relative impunity. Yeah, it's hard to get used to, but it is very freeing. Still, weak players tend to be very cautious/fearful of getting check-raised (usually in larger games where they are thinking in terms of the $$ amount of the bet and not that it is just one bet).

I wouldn't really worry at this point about exploiting weak vs strong players with turn frequencies. Just focus on establishing a solid baseline strategy. You are almost never "polarized" in limit because your bet is almost always so small compared to the size of the pot. You should get called by lots of worse hands, so you are incentivized to bet lots of hands. You will very frequently be double and triple barreling. Unless you have a good reason to think your hand is no good, that is basically your default. At low stakes, you will not get played back at with any sufficient frequency where you really need to worry about it.

OOP, bet/folding is your friend in smallish pots. As you move up in stakes and against certain players, you'll start to get raised by draws and non-nutty hands, but especially on big bet streets, you can bet/fold a lot in small pots and not worry too much about it.

On the river, you're right that people seem to way underbluff, and so that would militate in favor of adjusting by calling a bit less. Just know who the players are who will triple barrel and don't fold hands with showdown value.