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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 06-01-2019, 11:24 PM   #576
that_pope
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

It is. There is some magical cut-off in peoples head that JT is a premium hand but T9 is trash.

If anything I think a 9 high board is better for you with T9 than a J high board is for you with JT.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:17 AM   #577
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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It is. There is some magical cut-off in peoples head that JT is a premium hand but T9 is trash.

If anything I think a 9 high board is better for you with T9 than a J high board is for you with JT.
+2
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:41 PM   #578
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Ok I may be a nit. Going to take this to the preflop thread.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:15 AM   #579
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Don't ban this for being NL 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Played a bachelor party home game that was the most fun I've ever had playing. Started out .50 blinds and $20 max buy with rebuy up to the top stack. There's me, two experienced good no limit players (one tag, one lag), 4 novices, and a player only one other guy at the table knew was actually experienced (I didn't know at the time).

An hour or so later after the shove fest dust settles 3 novices call it quits and a bottle of Maker's Mark is almost empty. We've upped the blinds to .5/1 with $120-$150ish stacks. Me and the other experienced players are talking trash that'd get you kicked out of any classy establishment (basically a normal Commerce game) while the novices on the rail have no idea what we are talking about. Some PG comments:

The tag kept screaming "my range crushed that flop" every flop.

A two flush 3 Broadway flop was agreed to be wetter than a December day in Seattle.

"Of course I call that weak early position raise" says the TAG when I open UTG for 5x the big blind.

Lots of splashing the pot and yelling "gamble!" when calling.

Actual strategy moment on meta-game: LAG open folds top pair on turn when I bet two pair and gave him ok odds to call. He comments about how I am a tight player. So that night I made three big semi-bluffs in big pots and showed when he folded every time. Next morning he joked thinking about those hands kept him up that night.

The guy who only the TAG knew could play walked away up a few hundred big blinds. I broke even because I spewed at him and bet too thinly looking for value a couple times when worse wasn't calling. I think I was called a limit fish when I justified the bet because of the good odds I laid from small bet-sizing. Tough to remember.
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:09 AM   #580
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Good luck to all you degens in Vegas this month.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:27 AM   #581
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

10 days in the country with a dog, some cats, chickens, and baby praying mantises lol. No car, but there might be a bike in the garage and there are some stores a few miles away.

There’s a 12 string acoustic guitar and an electric guitar complete with amp. I haven’t played electric in years.

Also the Motley Crue movie I watched on Netflix last night was well done imo.
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:37 PM   #582
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Sounds like heaven to me.
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:25 PM   #583
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZZFvt6vdq4

I snapped a string tuning the 12 string, so that's out. The electric is lacking some strings, so that's out. However, I found a nice acoustic with all 6 strings and tried to play gimme three steps.
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Old 06-16-2019, 05:07 PM   #584
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Ok what is the ruling here?

I raise utg, SB and BB both call. Flop comes out and SB makes a forward motion with chips in hand while simultaneously saying “check”. He doesn’t release chips and this is happening, BB puts two bets out. This room has the usual “forward motion constitutes a bet” rule and also the “verbal is binding” ruling.

Floor is called. What is the ruling?
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:57 PM   #585
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Check
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:05 PM   #586
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Check + warning
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:04 PM   #587
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

I would rule it a bet if the forward motion came before the verbal declaration.
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:06 PM   #588
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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Originally Posted by holmfries View Post
Ok what is the ruling here?

I raise utg, SB and BB both call. Flop comes out and SB makes a forward motion with chips in hand while simultaneously saying “check”. He doesn’t release chips and this is happening, BB puts two bets out. This room has the usual “forward motion constitutes a bet” rule and also the “verbal is binding” ruling.

Floor is called. What is the ruling?
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Originally Posted by reaper6788 View Post
Check + warning
Assuming that things were done basically simultaneously, I go with this. Of the two behaviors, one could theoretically be ambiguous (how much forward is a "forward motion") and one is not ("check" and "bet" are different enough that it's hard to say an ambiguous word that sounds like both of them).

I've seen plenty of times when a player has chips in his hand, and he checks with those chips still in hand, and sometimes the hand moves forward in that checking motion. The most common one is having your hand palm-down with chips, and then flipping your wrist over to check with the back of your hand. Almost always, that rolling of the wrist makes the chips move forward (unless your hand is straight out in front of you already).
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:59 PM   #589
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Given the amount of info you gained I'd encourage this behavior.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:26 PM   #590
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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Given the amount of info you gained I'd encourage this behavior.
What info was gained and how is it useful?
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:55 AM   #591
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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What info was gained and how is it useful?
The next player raised and now you can adjust what you think his range is appropriately.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:08 AM   #592
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Also a player that moves forward w/ chips while managing not to bet almost always has a small piece and he's trying to stop you from betting by showing a willingness to maybe bet.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:07 PM   #593
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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Also the Motley Crue movie I watched on Netflix last night was well done imo.
That movie came out at about the same time as Bohemian Rhapsody, but the Crue movie labored in essential obscurity while BR got Oscar nominations and wins.

I personally find that disparity interesting because it's not like Motley Crue was a bunch of nobodies - they had four straight multi-platinum albums culminating in a #2 and a #1 back to back. Clearly, though, Queen has had a far more lasting impact on music history.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:18 PM   #594
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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Also a player that moves forward w/ chips while managing not to bet almost always has a small piece and he's trying to stop you from betting by showing a willingness to maybe bet.
Can confirm, HB is a thinker.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:46 AM   #595
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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Originally Posted by reaper6788 View Post
The next player raised and now you can adjust what you think his range is appropriately.
Seems like an extremely unreliable way to get information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post
Also a player that moves forward w/ chips while managing not to bet almost always has a small piece and he's trying to stop you from betting by showing a willingness to maybe bet.
I'd have to see it live, but my initial reaction is "not really." This sounds like one of those things in Caro's Book of Tells that's not actually a reliable thing at all. I've seen lots of variations of hands moving forward with chips, and I'm really doubtful that in the generic case you're actually gaining information.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:41 PM   #596
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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Assuming that things were done basically simultaneously, I go with this. Of the two behaviors, one could theoretically be ambiguous (how much forward is a "forward motion") and one is not ("check" and "bet" are different enough that it's hard to say an ambiguous word that sounds like both of them).

I've seen plenty of times when a player has chips in his hand, and he checks with those chips still in hand, and sometimes the hand moves forward in that checking motion. The most common one is having your hand palm-down with chips, and then flipping your wrist over to check with the back of your hand. Almost always, that rolling of the wrist makes the chips move forward (unless your hand is straight out in front of you already).
The floor came over and ruled that it was a check. I called the flop bet from BB, turned a flush draw, rivered a third jack and won a big pot.

A bit more background. This is a daily midstakes game that is very good and a player pool of say two dozen very regular players. SB is a loose, terribad recreational player but a very nice, friendly younger guy. After the floor was called (but before she arrived) he tried to just say “it’s fine” and put out a bet. He never clarified what his original intention was fwiw.

BB is a very good, regular PRO and I’m friendly with him. He acts very quickly almost always (so do I), particularly if taking an aggressive action. He claimed that it wasn’t simultaneous - basically his assertion was that SB made forward motion, saw that he was raising and then said “check” to get out of having to call a raise. The dealer re-enacted the situation for the floor and it’s very subjective - basically comes down to when you decide forward motion had been made. BB point (rightfully so) is that this leaves the door open for an angle.

In the end, we left it up to the floor and no one complained at the decision.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:55 AM   #597
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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Originally Posted by holmfries View Post
A bit more background. This is a daily midstakes game that is very good and a player pool of say two dozen very regular players. SB is a loose, terribad recreational player but a very nice, friendly younger guy. After the floor was called (but before she arrived) he tried to just say “it’s fine” and put out a bet. He never clarified what his original intention was fwiw.

...

BB point (rightfully so) is that this leaves the door open for an angle.
Sounds like the sort of player that I wouldn't want to have leave the game over one small bet. And also sounds like the sort of player that isn't sophisticated enough to angle effectively.

He was probably embarrassed that he might have done something wrong, and did the thing that he felt would remedy the situation by just accepting that it was a bet. And so he probably meant to check.

I hope that someone gave him a kind explanation about the situation so that he could avoid the mistake in the future.

BB is right that there is a door open for an angle. But he could protect himself by taking an extra beat before acting. I have no idea how close to simultaneous the motion was, but if it's fast enough that his chips are out there and the other player's action is ambiguous, I would say that he's putting himself at risk in an unnecessary way by acting too fast.

Last edited by Aaron W.; 06-20-2019 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:50 AM   #598
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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Sounds like the sort of player that I wouldn't want to have leave the game over one small bet. And also sounds like the sort of player that isn't sophisticated enough to angle effectively.

He was probably embarrassed that he might have done something wrong, and did the thing that he felt would remedy the situation by just accepting that it was a bet. And so he probably meant to check.

I hope that someone gave him a kind explanation about the situation so that he could avoid the mistake in the future.

BB is right that there is a door open for an angle. But he could protect himself by taking an extra beat before acting. I have no idea how close to simultaneous the motion was, but if it's fast enough that his chips are out there and the other player's action is ambiguous, I would say that he's putting himself at risk in an unnecessary way by acting too fast.

Yep, pretty much my thought process as well.
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Old 06-24-2019, 11:05 AM   #599
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

Boston officially has primo gambol.
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:56 PM   #600
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Re: 2019 NC/LC THREAD - No problem

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Boston officially has primo gambol.
What games are they running?
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