Cliff's: Rob could be making a credible argument about hypocrisy regarding poverty, but instead he's lapsing into absurd micromanagement about what sort of building should house a homeless shelter. I would love to see the better-informed version of his case, because the one presented so far isn't doing much to convince me.
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Originally Posted by callipygian
How poor does one need to be in order to have the moral authority to tell others to help the homeless?
The corollary I'm interested in: How much does a person or an organization need to be involved in helping the homeless in order to have the moral authority to encourage others to help the homeless?
Obviously there's been a lot wrong with the Catholic church but they have a documented history over centuries of engaging with poverty. I'm not Catholic but frankly I wish Protestant/Evangelical churches would emulate them in a lot of ways.
Dorothy Day is pretty interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Day
Rob, I can understand an argument like, "This org does a little bit to help the poor, but it doesn't do as much as it should, and here's why." I don't get the sense your case is that developed. Truthfully I'm not even sure what you know about Catholic teaching and practical engagement with poverty. In your eagerness to claim hypocrisy you're ending up in silliness like the priest should have to shoo people out at 8:00 am on Sunday because church pews are a better solution than funding a homeless shelter with actual beds.
Specialization of buildings is a pretty fundamental characteristic to modern civilization.
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Originally Posted by chillrob
Infinitely? No one should really be telling others to give their money away. But it's especially egregious when someone with more wealth tells someone with less what to do with it. And the pope has more wealth than anyone else, so he shouldn't be telling anyone.
The Pope is speaking as the leader of a religious org that claims 1.3 billion adherents; his personal wealth isn't the point here. And although the Vatican is quite nice and everything, it's not like the Pope lives extravagantly in the same sense as Joel Osteen or Joyce Meyer.
If you don't think any moral teaching on poverty is legitimate, fine, but then the stuff about turning churches into homeless shelters instead of building separate homeless shelters is just a red herring. It doesn't make any coherent case.
But if you're looking to make a credible allegation of hypocrisy, there are chances to do. You'd need to start with Jesus' teachings on poverty, compare them with what the Pope (or any other Christian leader) says or does, and point out the difference. Maybe only 15% of Catholic parishes support a homelessness outreach, or they all do but some of them are scams, or whatever.
With evidence, something like that could be a convincing case, but it's not the case you're making right now.