Sometimes the turn will favor your range rather than theirs. It's not so much the intent to donk the turn, but the turn will affect who's range is ahead.

I.e., button opens, I call in BB.

Flop: 9-8-3
I c/r, they 3-bet, I call.

Turn: 9
I bet.

So you have 0 hands you c/r in that spot ?

Against some opponents, yes. If they mindlessly barrel, then no. Depends how often they are 3-betting with overcards otf and also how often they are checking back the turn on scary cards.

BTW, this question is kind of ******ed. I might as well ask you "so there's 0 hands you bet in this spot?". An example does not mean you always do something, I'm giving an example of how turn cards can improve your range vs. your opponents and so you will need to sometimes bet. You can't always k/r/c, check every turn card.

I'd shove 66 readless there. Calling preflop and check folding the flop would be the exception, which I would only do with a good read vs very passive players. There's no such thing as "committed to showing down" when you're drawing to two outs at bad odds.

I think so in the vast majority of cases.

I call some hands in the big blind situation presented above. Basically it's done with hands that are too strong to fold yet too weak to shove. It's a small number of hands that I'll call. Antes help the cause here.

I think this is true. You seem to be focusing on winning a few extra pots and stealing a little bit of equity by making better hands fold. Unfortunately, your opponents are aware of the stop n go play and they'll see right through it when you donk shove the flop. Hint: you should probably check raise or check call all in with strong hands there on the QJ2 flop. Do you see how this takes away value from the stop n go?

Instead of thinking of how to achieve your goals of winning a few extra pots and stealing a little bit of equity, you should be thinking about the bigger picture and how to construct a solid strategy as a whole. This all starts with thinking about the size of your investment relative to the blinds and antes. It's the most basic poker principle of measuring risk/reward.

I believe that's the path to winning more tourneys.

My apologies for all the no limit content. Here's some random no content stuffs as penance:

I like coffee, a lot.

Oh good morning.

311 big bet downswing?

Last week I value bet ATo unimproved vs a 2+2er heads up out of position on the river and scooped.

Shoutouts? ok:

Unguarded? where u at?

rodeo? sup bro

ZekeFerrari? who the f knows

KitCloudKicker? miss u

um that's all I got for now.

------

Did I say good morning?

If they're getting it all in no matter which way things go, then it literally doesn't matter which way it's played. I absolutely shouldn't care whether they "see through me" or not because it's all going in anyway.

Also, your suggestion of check-calling or check-raising seems to suggest that you're not paying any attention to stack size in this conversation.

I thought we were talking about short stack situations, which make up most of our decisions in tourneys.

We would need to be quite deep in order to check fold QTo on the QJ2 flop. Donking the flop there would be quite bad imo no matter the stack depths.

I think you should care that you're donking your tourney life into a preflop raiser that holds a range vs range equity advantage, with quite a weak hand. I'd rather check fold and save my 8bb, or check call and hope to catch bluffs.

Good morning Bob.

Yabbut with antes our M is even smaller, something like 2. We should be shoving here unless the villain is a skinny old guy who hasn't played a hand since the paleolithic.

Kicker goot!

haha.

Right, this does make us shove wider, but it also allows us to see flops at a decent price with seemingly bad hands. For example:

bubble time 3 pay 4 left. I have 8bb after posting my bb and ante. I'm the shorty vs 3 medium stacks of 15-25bb. Antes make for about .8bb extra in the pot.

fold, button raises 2x, small blind folds and it's on me in the big blind with 76s. I think shoving would be pretty bad here, as would folding. I'm getting 4.3:1 to flop something decent.

"but then you only have 7bb left if you miss?!"

So? I've come back to win tourneys from worse spots. Just the other day I won a freeroll. I made the final table, lost some big pots and was left with literally 1.7 big blinds. Four shoves in a row later and I'm chipleader. Went on to win it. /worthless anecdotal evidence? or: /undeniable ev as part of my winrate. I think it's the latter.

What up? I'm curious to know the story behind your undertitle.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that you don't understand the situation being described. I recommend you take a step back and try to actually construct a scenario under the given parameters to demonstrate that you know what you're talking about.

You're not really addressing anything meaningful with this comment.

You were presenting the case that you were just shoving preflop. So I don't know why you should feel any different about a blind stop-and-go if it's all going in anyway. I don't know why you're talking about some sort of equity advantage (edit: for the raiser) if you're shoving preflop.

"I once shoved four times in a row and became chip leader."

This is kind of cringe-worthy as an argument from someone who I think knows better. It doesn't actually address anything relevant.

I'm showing you why the stop n go sucks. Once again, my imperfection keeps you from actually thinking about poker while you try to poke holes in logic.

Because if I was somehow forced to call preflop with 66 and 11 big blinds, I would definitely not shove the flop because of the bit you quoted. You're allowing bad hands to fold and good hands to call, with your tourney life at stake.

Right. I might as well have just closed the computer after becoming the short stack. Oh well.

A relevant nsfw joke imo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueEyhmdxeV0

You're showing why it sucks in a completely unrelated scenario. It's a stupid argument.

Yeah. Your analysis is approaching worthless. If you have to change the scenario to make your argument work, it's probably without merit in the current scenario.

Maybe if I make a mathematical statement, Aaron can understand my position; the English language apparently is too complicated.

66 pre with 11bb vs 3x btn raise = shove>>>call/checkflopanddecide>>>>>>>stopngo

You haven't presented a single concrete scenario. So which scenario are you referring to?

Yup. This is a completely meaningful interpretation of my statement and 100% relevant.

Best of luck to you. I'm not going to play the game of increasing inanity with you. You have failed to present either an argument or a counterargument of merit. You have demonstrated an inability to deal with the particular scenario at hand.

Pretty sure this was the only scenario presented. So how am I changing the scenario?

LOL -- It's the thing you quoted in post #1454.

Sorry, but you have earned a very special place in my perspective of someone who cannot be trusted to perform a fair analysis. You're too interested in proving yourself right against me for some reason, and it means that you're becoming intellectually dishonest. That's not something I'm going to have any patience with.

Sure, you can do that if you hate money.