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Old 09-10-2017, 12:12 AM   #1276
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
I doubt Howard has turned down a good hand in a while. As a matter of fact, he actively seeks them out.
There's much truth to this. Someome with skills que a link to the classic, 'ask me anything about massage parlors thread!'.

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Old 09-11-2017, 04:23 PM   #1277
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

I wish I could enjoy NL like I could enjoy FL, because I still can't get over how poorly many opponents play the game. Like, even the weaker players in FL games have figured out some basic starting hand requirements, but I couldn't believe some of the crap people would flip over yesterday in a 2/5 game.
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:59 PM   #1278
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
I wish I could enjoy NL like I could enjoy FL, because I still can't get over how poorly many opponents play the game. Like, even the weaker players in FL games have figured out some basic starting hand requirements, but I couldn't believe some of the crap people would flip over yesterday in a 2/5 game.
In defense of NL fish, implied odds are so great that the EV of coldcalling 52o (money lost per money risked) is better than it is in FL.

Like if a tight player raises to 3 bb with JJ+ with 100 bb behind, and will stack off an overpair if you flop bottom two pair, it's probably still EV- to coldcall the 3 bb but not as bad as coldcalling a 2 bb LHE PFR and getting paid 6-8 bb if you hit.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:11 PM   #1279
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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In defense of NL fish, implied odds are so great that the EV of coldcalling 52o (money lost per money risked) is better than it is in FL.
Can't we argue the inverse and say that our implied odds against 52o are much higher? It seems like a somewhat fallacious assumption that even though our top 15% will beat their top 95% 65% of the time, that they'll win more when they do win the pots than we will to help a bit. While sure, we don't get a dime w/ our AK versus their 52 on AK6, but they could win a fairly big pot from us on A52r, but we're also way more likely to be on the good end of set vs set, flush v flush, straight v straight, pair v pair, etc.

I do agree that getting paid off on your random crap that the opponent can't see on the board helps a lot, but still.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:34 PM   #1280
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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Can't we argue the inverse and say that our implied odds against 52o are much higher? It seems like a somewhat fallacious assumption that even though our top 15% will beat their top 95% 65% of the time, that they'll win more when they do win the pots than we will to help a bit. While sure, we don't get a dime w/ our AK versus their 52 on AK6, but they could win a fairly big pot from us on A52r, but we're also way more likely to be on the good end of set vs set, flush v flush, straight v straight, pair v pair, etc.

I do agree that getting paid off on your random crap that the opponent can't see on the board helps a lot, but still.
It really depends. A lot of players that assume they're good end up taking the worst of it more often than they should, and then blame their opponents for it.

Typical example: $1/2 NL. Rando limp in EP and Hero raises AK OTB to $10. One of the blinds and rando call. Flop comes A52. Rando bets $4. Hero raises to $50, rando calls. Turn is a jack or something, rando checks and hero pushes for $150 more. Rando calls and tables 52o. Hero complains about how badly rando played his hand because he should have folded preflop.

Postflop, hero played really poorly. The preflop raise is a maybe little big, but the flop raise is way too big, and that led to a bad turn push. I'm not saying that hero necessarily gets away from his hand, but he probably got stacked when he shouldn't have. If you're consistently playing top pair hands for 100 BBs, you're probably losing more than you ought.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:54 PM   #1281
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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It really depends. A lot of players that assume they're good end up taking the worst of it more often than they should, and then blame their opponents for it.

Typical example: $1/2 NL. Rando limp in EP and Hero raises AK OTB to $10. One of the blinds and rando call. Flop comes A52. Rando bets $4. Hero raises to $50, rando calls. Turn is a jack or something, rando checks and hero pushes for $150 more. Rando calls and tables 52o. Hero complains about how badly rando played his hand because he should have folded preflop.

Postflop, hero played really poorly. The preflop raise is a maybe little big, but the flop raise is way too big, and that led to a bad turn push. I'm not saying that hero necessarily gets away from his hand, but he probably got stacked when he shouldn't have. If you're consistently playing top pair hands for 100 BBs, you're probably losing more than you ought.
On the same token, what about when random fish limp/calls the K2s and loses to AK on KK6r? Though I do agree that playing for it w/ one pair in highish SPR pots is a good way to earn a one way ticket to brokesville.

Aside: I do prefer small raises myself, since it makes more hands profitable to play, but I've never really gotten the argument of small raises preflop against inelastic opponents. Like if I have AA, and fishy mcfisherton wants to call 30 at the same frequency he calls 15, why not make it 30? A bigger pot preflop means a potentially bigger pot by the river.

Edit: Also want to add that a lot of NL players still do things that one would consider strategically egregious. Like it's rare to see even a bad player at FL open limp the button, but I saw it dozens of times last night.
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:41 PM   #1282
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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On the same token, what about when random fish limp/calls the K2s and loses to AK on KK6r?
Sure. The possibility of being coolered is out there. It always will be. But that's not really the type of situation we're talking about. Such situations are not making as much of a dent because of their relative rarity. There are waaaaay more situations that players get themselves into that they shouldn't.

Quote:
Also want to add that a lot of NL players still do things that one would consider strategically egregious. Like it's rare to see even a bad player at FL open limp the button, but I saw it dozens of times last night.
Nobody said that the opposition plays well. But a lot of players who know a little bit of information know just enough to make specific types of errors and think they're just unlucky.
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:39 AM   #1283
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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Two out of three ain't bad.
Anyone who had actually gone through a divorce from a demon from hell would know it's the nut low
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:42 AM   #1284
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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I just wanna talk about poker without you trying to get me to lash out. It's like you're trying to win a bet that I'll get banned from 2+2.
C'mon. I've been coming here for ten years and no one told me this was something I could have been doing to people?

Last edited by ZOMG_RIGGED!; 09-12-2017 at 02:43 AM. Reason: $50 on that dick Chillrob
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:28 AM   #1285
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

You're not gonna get me to escalate!
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:30 AM   #1286
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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You're not gonna get me to escalate!
Ive already got you using exclamation points. Just a matter of time now.
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:55 AM   #1287
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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C'mon. I've been coming here for ten years and no one told me this was something I could have been doing to people?
You need someone with faith in humanity to bet with.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:12 AM   #1288
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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You need someone with faith in humanity to bet with.
**** those guys. More fun to just do it as sport

Last edited by ZOMG_RIGGED!; 09-12-2017 at 09:15 AM. Reason: Or bet pennies and do it Trading Places style
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:06 PM   #1289
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

Kind of like the way a cat plays with a mouse.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:09 PM   #1290
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

Srsly. You'd have to be something of a sociopath to take either side of that bet.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:40 PM   #1291
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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You play for shoes?
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**** those guys. More fun to just do it as sport
Been out of the loop for a few days and coming back, I find these two gems.

Good work gents.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:43 PM   #1292
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
Srsly. You'd have to be something of a sociopath to take either side of that bet.
Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between a sociopath and someone with a good poker face.

Last edited by ZOMG_RIGGED!; 09-12-2017 at 04:43 PM. Reason: All Omaha players though
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:46 PM   #1293
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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All Omaha players though
Nah, that's just their confused face.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:58 PM   #1294
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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Nah, that's just their confused face.
Most only remember 2 cards and kind of remember half another, so they're thinking about that other card and the suit or rank on the half. Really tough in 5 card Omaha. Just standard.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:28 PM   #1295
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

Well it finally happened. Nondescript 20 game, expert player raises UTG + 1, I 3! Next in with AhAs, terrible BB calls. Flop 742ddd. I bet, BB calls, UTG folds. Turn 5d and it goes check check. River is 3s, BB bets and I call.

At this point I should mention two things. First is that it is aces cracked wins $75 day. Second is that I am in the three seat and BB is in the 8 seat - so we are as far apart as you can be at the table.

So I fastroll like I always do. I never muck without showing in case I've misread my hand, which I did in this case (I missed the back door straight). BB rolls, I see two small cards, dealer announces aces cracked, mucks the board, pushes the pot to BB and starts to gather the stub.

Seat one speaks up that I won the hand. Apparently BB had black 55.


BB claims he doesn't remember what the board was, although the dealer now realizes he pushed the pot the wrong way. So we impound the pot, go to the tape and I get my $300 an hour later instead of $75.

Lesson learned.
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:28 PM   #1296
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

Cool story, but not sure what the lesson was. You already handled the situation perfectly. Everyone misreads hands occasionally, which is a good reason to turn up your hand as you did.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:58 PM   #1297
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

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Cool story, but not sure what the lesson was.
I believe it was...

Quote:
Everyone misreads hands occasionally, which is a good reason to turn up your hand as you did.

Last edited by Aaron W.; 09-12-2017 at 09:59 PM. Reason: Alternatively, don't make hero folds on the river.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:01 PM   #1298
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

i don't think it can qualify as a hero fold if you misread your hand.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:06 PM   #1299
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

Did he pocket the SB?

And how would you do anything besides call with 4 diamonds on the board?
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:07 PM   #1300
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Re: 2017 ustakes NC, where the steaks are wafer thin (Low Content Thread)

That's disgusting
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