Yeah, the sentence about "I knew what was going to happen" was confusing. What I meant was closer to the description above. This guy isn't a habitual angle shooter. Anytime a dealer isn't watching the action it makes me nervous. So in real time i instabet the river, the middle player instamucked (after having backraised the turn), the older guy plopped a handful of chips out on the felt but didn't release them, I look at the dealer and see she still isn't paying attention and as he is sliding them back that is when I realized there was an issue. So my poorly worded comment was more like "I know what is going to happen - that I think he technically called, changed his mind and the dealer didn't see it so now I am going be be forced to decided if I want to enforce this technicality or not".

Just to be clear, I am not looking for kudos for not making him call or some sort of support for "yeah, you should have made him". It was honestly a gray area that I hadn't encountered.

I like the string raise analogy. In the end - it did strike me as a technicality that I was well within my right enforcing, but was probably best not to for the long run of the game. That is why I chose to let it slide, despite the fact that I am almost certain the floor would have ruled that he owed me the last bet.

In the interest of fun and in helping to understand "where the line" is for me, consider this example. This happened about 6 months ago in the same game.

Grumpy, weak tight nit raises UTG, couple callers, I call otb w/JTs. Flop is QT3r with one of my suit. He bets, I call quickly and am the only caller. Same action on a blank turn. River is another blank, he takes chips out, motions to the pot and I put chips out to call just before his hit the felt (stupid I know). He does a "reverso", pulls the chips back to his stack, throws his hand in the muck, does a little jazz hands thing (waving fingers motion as if to indicate that he doesn't have cards) and grins at me.

So not only did his action constitute a bet (technically, since he motioned to the pot with chips in hand), but it legitimately caused me to act.

If in my initial example I had flipped my hand over when I thought the old man had called, then we would have had a more analogous situation

in the most humble-dest way pozzible!

holmfries, what is the official rule where these incidents occurred?

If it is the forward motion rule, is it ever actually enforced that way?

I’m sorry I was overly harsh and criticized your motivations earlier. I think you handled a complicated situation very well.

Yes - the actual rule is something like "forward motion towards the pot with chips in hand constitutes a bet" or similar. It is enforced pretty consistently when it is clear that the person's intent was to bet or call. When the intent isn't clear, it becomes a gray area.

This one sounds much more like an angle. If the rule is forward motion, I wouldn't mind getting the floor over for a ruling. Also, if you piss off the nit and he walks away from the game, it's probably +EV for you because the person filling in is likely going to play more hands.

But yeah... don't be anxious. The two seconds you save by jumping the gun isn't worth it. Also, you might also want to say "call" because I've seen that where a player does that, but then follows with "raise." It didn't stand, but if the dealer isn't paying attention, it's a harder case to win.

One thing that people never really addressed is how reputations are basically a moving average of what people have done.

Basically, I let every person angleshoot me once. Like every hand someone's not a dick they get +1 reputation points and if they make a mistake it's like -100 or something and if they intentionally do it, it's like -10,000 or some number big enough that they wouldn't really get a second chance from me as a recreational player.

And I've been on the flip side of this a few times and made pretty significant mistakes that have been graciously overlooked. Like one time I played a hand against Alan where I thought I had A5 on an A5xxx board and declared two pair as I flipped over A7. I was mortified and profusely apologized, and he accepted it as a mistake, but certainly if it happened another time in short order he should have adjusted my reputation score accordingly.

In other unrelated news, I am being discharged from this inpatient rehab facility in the morning. I still have to use crutches or a walker to ambulate, but I managed to not go stir-crazy having been unexpectedly confined since the 12th. I can't wait to have good, greasy homemade lasagna and a bottle of Mollydooker for supper tomorrow. Freedom!

Yes, hate hospital beds. I understand that they are programmed to move around every 15 minutes to relieve bed sores, but that also makes it impossible to sleep.

Spent the first night in one of those "air beds." Demanded a standard bed the next morning since the air bed was impossible to sleep in.

A while ago I told you about foie gras brulee and you had some reservations about the fruit-based sauce I usually use. I usually only make it twice a year and I experimented with an umami-based sauce instead of fruit-based. Crimini mushroom reduction, with some tendony beef to thicken. Long story short, not really on the short list to repeat.

Did open one of the few bottles that I expended more than minimal effort to buy - a Prager Portworks sweet Riesling.

You're one to appreciate the story of Prager.

Way back around 1999-2000, my friend and I used to make pretty regular trips up to Napa. His girlfriend absolutely loved the Robert Mondavi Muscato d'Oro, and because we were broke ass graduate students and wine tasting wasn't a huge thing, it was cost effective to drive up and purchase it direct fom the winery.

One trip it doesn't work out and we're there at Mondavi kind of disappointed because they ran out or something, and a gentleman of the highest caliber suggests a new place called Prager Portworks. He sketches the directions on a napkin and off we go.

We get to the place and it's a literal hole in the wall, we peek inside and see barrels so we're pretty sure it's the right place but it's set back from the main road and it just has this "someone's gonna jump out with a shotgun and yell at you to get off his property" feel. Eventually, we gather enough courage to walk through the creepy barn and into ... a kitchen.

Mr. Prager appears out of a side room and greets us warmly. We ended up spending like 2.5 hours there tasting all sorts of ports and dessert wines and it was probably the best wine tasting experience I ever had. We picked up by graduate student standards is a ****ton of wine.

The epilogue isn't happy, though. Soon afterward, he got famous. The next time we went back, the gravel parking lot was all crowded and the hole in the wall was patched. We got to try three wines and then got hustled out so the next group could come in. The year afterward, he started charging for tastings.

I still drop by to buy a few bottles of the sweet Riesling whenever I'm in town but I never do the tastings any more, it just makes me sad.

Mom's re-hab place allowed me to bring her meals and I brought her faves from local restaurants. Going back to the nursing home for re-hab is now her greatest fear.

Howard, when you doing Vegas? Bravo is showing actual 8/16 LHE at the Orleans and the bad beat is almost 100k. And on a Tuesday no less.

I played in it tonight. Was tough to get enough people to get the game started, but then it was still full when I left 4 hours later. Was a very good game also.

Picture comes to mind like


Free at last. Glad to hear you're home and drinking good vino, where you belong.
That sucks.

Congrats on losing less than a rack in an eight chip game sir. Also congrats on 10k posts.

I think that most of the time there are enough people in town that would play that if it were already going. The problem is getting critical mass. It would probably run regularly if someone hosted it 2 or 3 nights a week.

I told mom we're going in December. I don't like where The Venetian has it's Wheel of Fortune dollar slots but she doesn't care if it's in a pig sty. Will be hitting up 3/4 of the lady's rooms between Phoenix and LV, what fun!

I hit up the new Bay 101 for the first time.

Number of times in my life I have watched adults drop trou to use the urinal, before today: 2

Number of times now: 4

WTF

The poker room looks like it lost a bet and had to give up 500 square feet to the dark side, or that the poker room has been naughty and the teacher told it to go sit in the corner.

WTF

Watched someone get booted for the most ridiculous reason - people complained that he lobbied too much so the floor told him he had to play a full orbit. But that's not what got him kicked out. Instead, he sat down, started playing hands, and then insisted to the floor that nobody had complained, the floor got pissed off and force racked him up.

WTF

20/40, 40/80, 80/160 were all going and the 80 even got a must move but it lasted less than an hour, I think.

1/2/3 is the red headed stepchild of the Bay 101 family, could barely hold 1 table for a while and then just when it stabilized they started a second to make sure one game was always on the verge of dying. 2/3/5 and DS strong. 5/10 went but was waffley and died sometime. 8/16 and 20/40 LO8 both went. There was also 4/8 and 8/16 but full of bitter Oaks regs and I didn't want to look at the tables for fear of them noticing me or worse yet having to talk to them and catching The Bitter.

Unless the lines at M8trix have increased significantly, I probably won't be back on a regular basis.

It used to be right in front of the poker room. Did they move it?

So you're driving the Versa!

That's a rough stretch between Wickenburg and I-40. Wikieup is pretty disgusting. I suggest the gas station at the far north end of Wickenburg at the traffic light. That should shorten the next leg.

Does the Versa have a trailer hitch? Maybe a Bumper Dumper is in order.

We'll be taking the Altima! We hit up the McD's in Wickenburg and the Shell in Wikieup. Then Kingman, then the first hotel over the bridge and maybe she makes it from there to the hotel.

lobbying is bad b/c of the rake, right? i hear regs complaining about game being short, they don' want to play, but I haven't thought too deeply about it.

if the live regs don't want to play shorthanded then it must be at least somewhat good for me b/c I like 6-max.. but is rake too big to overcome?

More likely because most live players hate playing shorthanded.