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Old 02-06-2008, 07:28 PM   #26
New York Jet
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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Originally Posted by BlueBear View Post
Good work, particularly useful for post-hand analysis, but not very useful in actual practice. By the time a multi-tabler figures out the actual percentages, he/she would timed out.
Exactly. A learning tool.
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:28 PM   #27
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

uh ohhhhhh :/
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:34 PM   #28
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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Originally Posted by ImsaKidd View Post
Very cool.

ETA on adding custom ranges? Hopefully the calculation isnt too difficult.

FTP/stars name I can send donation to?
The problem with a custom range is the time needed to calculate it. I'm not aware of any super fast .Net code that can handle ranges. If someone knows of any, let me know.

Thanks for the donation offer! You can send it to MeLikeGin at PokerStars.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:14 PM   #29
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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Originally Posted by New York Jet View Post
The problem with a custom range is the time needed to calculate it. I'm not aware of any super fast .Net code that can handle ranges. If someone knows of any, let me know.

Thanks for the donation offer! You can send it to MeLikeGin at PokerStars.
Can you make the divisions between ranges smaller? 29% to 36% is really huge for attempt to steal.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:34 PM   #30
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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Originally Posted by ImsaKidd View Post
Can you make the divisions between ranges smaller? 29% to 36% is really huge for attempt to steal.
It should be really easy for you to send him some common calling ranges and have him add those in. He should also just change the opening range slider to be either completely dynamic or just have an input box for entering a %.

The actual opening range doesn't really matter since it just gets used to find out the % he folds.

Edit: I could probably update these things if I had access to the source code.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:28 AM   #31
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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Originally Posted by ImsaKidd View Post
Can you make the divisions between ranges smaller? 29% to 36% is really huge for attempt to steal.
These are easily and quickly done using HERanger and HijackHoldemRanger.

Just need to know the common calling ranges.

In about 5 minutes, I calculated pokerstove ranges of 30.2, 31.1, 32.6, 33.2 and 34.4. Just don't know if these calling ranges are applicable/common.

They're all available if ya want em.

Here's one:

30.2% calling Range per pokerstove using HER and HHR:
VS, [55+,A2s+,K5s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,98s,A7o+,A5o,K9o+,Q9o +,J9o+,T9o]
AA, 0.8469
KK, 0.7732
QQ, 0.7258
JJ, 0.6813
TT, 0.6378
99, 0.5859
88, 0.5489
77, 0.5232
66, 0.5049
55, 0.4845
44, 0.4711
33, 0.4634
22, 0.4553
AKs, 0.6544
AQs, 0.6289
AJs, 0.6051
ATs, 0.5829
A9s, 0.5477
A8s, 0.5177
A7s, 0.4985
A6s, 0.4860
A5s, 0.4868
A4s, 0.4803
A3s, 0.4779
A2s, 0.4753
AKo, 0.6372
AQo, 0.6098
AJo, 0.5843
ATo, 0.5605
A9o, 0.5226
A8o, 0.4906
A7o, 0.4698
A6o, 0.4561
A5o, 0.4572
A4o, 0.4500
A3o, 0.4473
A2o, 0.4445
KQs, 0.5413
KJs, 0.5194
KTs, 0.4992
K9s, 0.4654
K8s, 0.4381
K7s, 0.4304
K6s, 0.4275
K5s, 0.4186
K4s, 0.4168
K3s, 0.4141
K2s, 0.4113
KQo, 0.5170
KJo, 0.4935
KTo, 0.4718
K9o, 0.4356
K8o, 0.4063
K7o, 0.3977
K6o, 0.3944
K5o, 0.3849
K4o, 0.3831
K3o, 0.3802
K2o, 0.3771
QJs, 0.4800
QTs, 0.4600
Q9s, 0.4266
Q8s, 0.4054
Q7s, 0.3886
Q6s, 0.3898
Q5s, 0.3821
Q4s, 0.3819
Q3s, 0.3790
Q2s, 0.3758
QJo, 0.4521
QTo, 0.4306
Q9o, 0.3949
Q8o, 0.3717
Q7o, 0.3535
Q6o, 0.3550
Q5o, 0.3469
Q4o, 0.3467
Q3o, 0.3436
Q2o, 0.3400
JTs, 0.4355
J9s, 0.4024
J8s, 0.3864
J7s, 0.3710
J6s, 0.3632
J5s, 0.3578
J4s, 0.3581
J3s, 0.3550
J2s, 0.3515
JTo, 0.4049
J9o, 0.3695
J8o, 0.3517
J7o, 0.3355
J6o, 0.3271
J5o, 0.3216
J4o, 0.3218
J3o, 0.3185
J2o, 0.3147
T9s, 0.3902
T8s, 0.3786
T7s, 0.3645
T6s, 0.3565
T5s, 0.3391
T4s, 0.3420
T3s, 0.3389
T2s, 0.3353
T9o, 0.3567
T8o, 0.3435
T7o, 0.3289
T6o, 0.3203
T5o, 0.3020
T4o, 0.3050
T3o, 0.3017
T2o, 0.2977
98s, 0.3759
97s, 0.3640
96s, 0.3561
95s, 0.3385
94s, 0.3290
93s, 0.3283
92s, 0.3247
98o, 0.3407
97o, 0.3286
96o, 0.3201
95o, 0.3015
94o, 0.2914
93o, 0.2906
92o, 0.2866
87s, 0.3764
86s, 0.3689
85s, 0.3519
84s, 0.3417
83s, 0.3284
82s, 0.3276
87o, 0.3417
86o, 0.3338
85o, 0.3158
84o, 0.3049
83o, 0.2906
82o, 0.2898
76s, 0.3764
75s, 0.3601
74s, 0.3498
73s, 0.3365
72s, 0.3229
76o, 0.3420
75o, 0.3248
74o, 0.3139
73o, 0.2996
72o, 0.2850
65s, 0.3710
64s, 0.3612
63s, 0.3482
62s, 0.3346
65o, 0.3365
64o, 0.3261
63o, 0.3121
62o, 0.2976
54s, 0.3676
53s, 0.3552
52s, 0.3417
54o, 0.3330
53o, 0.3198
52o, 0.3053
43s, 0.3530
42s, 0.3399
43o, 0.3175
42o, 0.3035
32s, 0.3366
32o, 0.3000


gTg
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:01 AM   #32
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize View Post
It should be really easy for you to send him some common calling ranges and have him add those in. He should also just change the opening range slider to be either completely dynamic or just have an input box for entering a %.

The actual opening range doesn't really matter since it just gets used to find out the % he folds.

Edit: I could probably update these things if I had access to the source code.
Good point. Give me some ranges and I'll update it.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:37 PM   #33
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

I think I figured out a way to have custom ranges while maintaining the speed. It may take a few days, but look for version 1.1 soon.
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Old 02-08-2008, 01:41 PM   #34
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

I tried out an extreme example and the result did not make sense.
Steal range: 3.5% (TT+, AK)
Raise Size: 4.0 BB
Effective Stack: 20.0 BB

So the villain call range goes from 3.5% to 35.7% but since that includes the entire steal range, villain is calling no matter what. Changing the call range doesn't really change anything. Yet when I move the call range, the jam/fold hands fluctuate from (QQ+) to (TT+, AK).

Edit: I see the output gets glitchy when the villain call range is wider than the steal range, for example the % Opp folds to push goes negative. For the next version it should be an easy fix, if somebody makes the call range wider just calculate with call range = steal range. And to be super nitty, you spelled "villain" wrong.

Last edited by EvilSteve; 02-08-2008 at 02:05 PM. Reason: further details
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Old 02-08-2008, 03:25 PM   #35
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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Originally Posted by New York Jet View Post
I think I figured out a way to have custom ranges while maintaining the speed. It may take a few days, but look for version 1.1 soon.
So the update will allow any range to be input, both in terms of the percentage and the hands it's comprised of? If you make it that malleable I will definately help out and donate. This would really help my tourneys. Looking forward to it.
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:23 PM   #36
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

This thread tilts me so hard.
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:49 PM   #37
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

yay, lets make make game ruining more easy lol.

i guess this is good for tournaments tough as well?
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:26 PM   #38
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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Originally Posted by Somnius View Post
So the update will allow any range to be input, both in terms of the percentage and the hands it's comprised of? If you make it that malleable I will definately help out and donate. This would really help my tourneys. Looking forward to it.
Percentage yes...hand comprised of no. I'm using the assumed push and call rankings from Kill Everyone. The update is almost done. Just doing some tests.
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:45 PM   #39
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UPDATED: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator 1.1

Version 1.1 released. Download it at http://nyjet_twoplustwo.home.mindspring.com/



Change log:
Custom ranges added (rank based upon Kill Everyone)
Labels clarified (Win % is actually the minimun Win % required)
Fonts changed (removed Vista font)

You'll notice that the Steal range is different than the Call range. See Kill Everyone for details.
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Old 02-09-2008, 01:31 AM   #40
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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Originally Posted by New York Jet View Post
lol @ you not seeing the bigger picture. Any advancement in poker strategy/theory is good. This calc can help to defend against SS'ers. The best players will adjust.

How many morons will accurately set ranges to ruin online poker? Anyone that soley uses this calc to shortstack will not kill your profitability. Let's face it, most people are stupid. Poker books, these forums, etc provide plenty of info to kill the profitability of online poker, yet most players still suck.

What you are suggesting is that the STT forum should have kept ICM quite so that SnGs could be more profitable.

Finally, you'll never believe this, but I am not a SS'er. 100BB buy-in is more profitable (at least for me).
do you not have the perspective to see that the games are infinitely harder now than they were just one or two years ago, hugely because of "poker books and these forums"? clearly suppressing this kind of information just delays the inevitable, but i selfishly want to milk this **** as long as possible.

i don't want to hijack this thread, so i'll stop posting in it. FWIW, the calculator looks well made and is probably worth a good amount of money.
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:07 AM   #41
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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do you not have the perspective to see that the games are infinitely harder now than they were just one or two years ago, hugely because of "poker books and these forums"? clearly suppressing this kind of information just delays the inevitable, but i selfishly want to milk this **** as long as possible.

i don't want to hijack this thread, so i'll stop posting in it. FWIW, the calculator looks well made and is probably worth a good amount of money.
The games are a little harder, but not for the reasons you suggest. The UIGEA is the #1 reason the games are harder. Losing players have difficulty getting money in to their account, so they stop playing.

BTW, how did you improve your game? Books and these forums I presume.
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Old 02-10-2008, 12:18 PM   #42
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

SSS1.1:

Steal Range .05% to 100%.
Call Range 5% to 90%.
Raise size 2BB to 14BB.
Effective stack 2.0BB to 43.0BB.

Wow...now I gotta git a copy of Kill Everyone and spend mucho time with this apparently amazing learning tool.

Thanks NYJ,

gTg
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Old 02-10-2008, 05:24 PM   #43
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

holy **** i have a boner right now

this might make me a lot less lazy for choo choo studying
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Old 02-10-2008, 06:13 PM   #44
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

New York Jet -- sorry if I'm a retard on this, but can u give step-by-step instructions on how to use your app? I don't typically short-stack, so I'm a little out of my element.
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:48 PM   #45
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

teddy,

While we're waiting for NYJ to help us with instructions, you may want to peruse this thread:

M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

gTg
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:48 PM   #46
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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Originally Posted by teddyFBI View Post
New York Jet -- sorry if I'm a retard on this, but can u give step-by-step instructions on how to use your app? I don't typically short-stack, so I'm a little out of my element.
The calculator is really only used for one situation: Re-raise all-in.
There is a lot more to short stacking than this. I'm considering adding calling ranges for when you open and someone else jams and for squeeze situations. I will probably work on my ICM calculator to include bubble and tournament factors first.

But as you requested....
Everyone folds to the Button who raises pot (3.5BB). You're on the SB. Estimate his steal range and his call range if you jam. Enter the size of his initial raise and the effective stack sizes (likely your stack size). So if you think he'll steal with 36% of his hands, but only call a jam with 20%, you should push 22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,A7o+,KJo+.
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:11 AM   #47
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

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Originally Posted by New York Jet View Post
I'm considering adding calling ranges for when you open and someone else jams and for squeeze situations.
This would be great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Jet View Post
I will probably work on my ICM calculator to include bubble and tournament factors first.
This would be great too.

You may have already seen this, but Everlong recently released a Bubble Factor Calculator.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...63#post2292363
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:58 PM   #48
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

Quote:
Everyone folds to the Button who raises pot (3.5BB). You're on the SB.
Uh this doesnt work for your calc.
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:39 PM   #49
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

SSS1.1 shows 22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,A7o+,KJo+ for me with:

36.0 Steal Range
19.8 Call Range
Raise size 3.5
Effective 18.5

gTg

Last edited by GaryTheGoat; 02-11-2008 at 04:50 PM. Reason: bold
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:37 PM   #50
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Re: Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator

Anyway it can acknowledge rake? You can acknowledge blinds by simply increasing the raise amount of the villain accordingly, but you can't acknowledge rake, if you set it to 19 when you're actually pushing 20, then winning will be accurate after rake, but the losing calculation will be inaccurate. Can you work in 5 percent rake?...
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