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Old 03-08-2006, 05:05 PM   #76
jukofyork
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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Sorry if I came across as being a hater of all payware software, as I am not! It was just the author tried to claim it was some huge undertaking to grab some memory and dump it to disk (and then try to charge 2x more than PAHUD for about 1% of the man hours).
PHT does more than just dump some memory to disk and it did cost me a lot of time to get it done without missing too many hands and without killing the CPU in the process. Reading that memory is just the beginning and getting a user friendly product with different options for different users is another thing. Hats down to PokerAce, I cannot compare myself to his eforts. Congrats to you Juk for your proof of concept, as I said I have nothing against competition. However I do have the bad habit of putting value on my work and not giving it away for free.
Rather than go over this over and over again, just to prove a point that I haven't singled you out for some malicious reason, please look at the following:

(a) Read my post in the 2+2 archives about the Pacific HandGrabber. Any idea why I made this 'stealth' post and asked those particular questions?

(b) Then read this page which promotes HandGrabber.

If I had wanted then I could have killed that project dead too, but what is the difference between the two? :-

(1) It takes vastly longer to work out Pacific's packet format compared to dumping ready made HH files direct from memory.
(2) $10 seems pretty fair for all the work that it took.

Aesop's fable: The Goose With the Golden Eggs. I am not religious, but do have beliefs, and as I pointed out in the other "post that was just deleted" thread, I stand up for them.

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:05 PM   #77
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

hey juks i assume it doesnt overwrite, just adds if you open say "Table 2" one day. then "Table 2" day later?

WIll add to the text file right?

Oh and i just copied and pasted EMPIRE.EXE into the folder to get PT to co-operate.

Now you need to put a sexy interface on it...

Ohh and that goose story is much better than my one about the kid in the playground with the only ball. Dam
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:14 PM   #78
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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hey juks i assume it doesnt overwrite, just adds if you open say "Table 2" one day. then "Table 2" day later?
Yes, it just appends to the files and should never deleted them unless you run it from party's main folder.

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Now you need to put a sexy interface on it...
Not 100% sure if this needs that much of an interface? I tried to keep it totally blank by default, to make 'screen captures' not show anything, but a lot of people seem a little confused by the fact it just looks like it's doing nothing, so maybe something like this would help!

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:17 PM   #79
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

Well im not to good with the old C. Can you not create a simple GUI.

Bit like mine for the absolute grabber, maybe just with a updating list showing all the ID's it grabbed or something?

Or i guess you could just #echo some of the processes into the command panel?

A sexy GUI would finish this off and it'd be up to scratch with all the other dataminers out there.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:20 PM   #80
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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Well im not to good with the old C. Can you not create a simple GUI.

Bit like mine for the absolute grabber, maybe just with a updating list showing all the ID's it grabbed or something?

Or i guess you could just #echo some of the processes into the command panel?

A sexy GUI would finish this off and it'd be up to scratch with all the other dataminers out there.
Have you tried using the -v option? This displays verbose output telling you what it is doing as it works.

Hehe, my interfaces suck badly (to say the least), but if people want it then I can add one to alter the three settings and display the -v output?

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:22 PM   #81
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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If I had wanted then I could have killed that project dead too
Sorry to bust your killing-the-bad-expensive-dragon dreams, but PHT is very much alive and well. Anyone who finds your program to his taste will use it, anyone who wants something more accurate can use PHT.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:27 PM   #82
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

Hey juk,
I dont know much about C so i'm really out of my depth discussing it. However yeah i guessing echoing some of the things its doing would be satisfactory.

I mean no one can cry, its free and it datamines PT. They use it to get hand historys to their harddrive, not to look pretty so... maybe a GUI is a waste of time.

Havent tried -V, may do that in a second.

Im just playing in VB with the link you sent me seeing what magical things i can discover.

By the way i can't pm you because your past your limit or something?

if youve got aim drop me a message POKhERLH Cheers.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:28 PM   #83
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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Can you not create a simple GUI.
Ya know what's awesome about open-source?

Juk doesn't have to be the one to write the gui. Anybody interested? I'm sure Mogobu can set you up an OverCards wiki-page. You'll get snazzy version-control and everything.
-Sam
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:30 PM   #84
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

Yeh sam i considered trying to slap one together, but i taught myself coding when i was 12 and in VB then i dabbled in C for like a month then went back to VB.

I'm out of my depth in C to be honest, im sure someone will slap something together.

Time to teach myself C...
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:42 PM   #85
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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Sorry to bust your killing-the-bad-expensive-dragon dreams, but PHT is very much alive and well. Anyone who finds your program to his taste will use it, anyone who wants something more accurate can use PHT.

I have to support PartyHandTracker here. His work on this and other apps. has really been excellent. His work imo is still cheap and he is very professional. He puts out new patches and answers all pm's and emails very quickly. I'm using work from both of you guys .

Roland,Sam and Juk get out that donation info all you guys have worked tirelessly on this stuff -you obviously love it.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:47 PM   #86
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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Juk, whatever you think about charging, I think you should set up a donation service (however that is done). I would be first in line.
Thanks, but I don't have any idea how to go about this and I tried to say in another post that the few days its taken me to write helper utilities, is pretty small in comparison to the info I have gained from trawling the 2+2 forums and hopefully this encorages some others to write helper utilitys/scripts which help me too!

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:58 PM   #87
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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Ya know what's awesome about open-source?
Couldn't have said it better myself!

People have seen the quality of my interfaces already I think?

If anybody is worried because of the license, then don't be! This is only their to protect myself in-case it crashes badly and somebody gets pissed bc of it (I really don't care even if somebody reuses all the code and puts their name on it... feel free to use the source as you wish [the very same ideas can be used to do alot of other interesting stuff, not just HH grabbing!]).

If people want an interface then I can add something, but might be a few days before I get the time to do it.

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:04 PM   #88
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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By the way i can't pm you because your past your limit or something?
If anybody needs to PM me urgently then look in my profile and you can see my email. I really have typed alot today though, and my hands would feel much better for a rest, so only if urgent plz

General question are better here in this thread also, as sometimes others can answer them just as easy as me!

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:11 PM   #89
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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Sorry to bust your killing-the-bad-expensive-dragon dreams, but PHT is very much alive and well. Anyone who finds your program to his taste will use it, anyone who wants something more accurate can use PHT.

I have to support PartyHandTracker here. His work on this and other apps. has really been excellent. His work imo is still cheap and he is very professional. He puts out new patches and answers all pm's and emails very quickly. I'm using work from both of you guys.
He said yesterday that he welcomed competition and I am first to admit that my util is not as refined, so hopefully he will be inspired to make improvements

Quote:
Roland,Sam and Juk get out that donation info all you guys have worked tirelessly on this stuff -you obviously love it.
I think we all believe in the same philosophy (I can only really speak for myself though). I have benefited from their iWitness work, and their hybrid AHK scripts as much as anybody else here

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:20 PM   #90
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

To clarify, I didn't figure anyone was talking about my product when complaining about prices. I've never had anyone tell me I charge too much, but I've had more than a few tell me I charge too little.

My comment was mainly to make people aware that the authors of the other software put in significant time in developing their product. A lot of people don't realize just how much time this consumes. I was a full time poker player, so I could afford to put the time and effort into PA Hud at the beginning. A lot of these developers have full time jobs and families and they sacrifice a lot of time to put these tools out. It's only fair if they choose to charge.

That said, competition is what makes great products. I had to consider free and commercial competition when I decided to sell my program. I can't put out crap and expect people to pay for it. I am constantly improving my product to make it worth the money and to keep people spreading the word.

PA Hud came into existance because I wanted to offer competition against a commercial product that I felt was charging too much for what it did. If anyone feels I charge too much or my product isn't any good, they can develop their own version. That, in turn, would force me to improve my product. In the end, the people who use the software win.

Also, about people making new user names for their products. I had the "PokerAce" name months before I came out with PA Hud. Someone suggested I named the software after my user name and it stuck.
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:21 PM   #91
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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Sorry if I came across as being a hater of all payware software, as I am not! It was just the author tried to claim it was some huge undertaking to grab some memory and dump it to disk (and then try to charge 2x more than PAHUD for about 1% of the man hours).
PHT does more than just dump some memory to disk and it did cost me a lot of time to get it done without missing too many hands and without killing the CPU in the process. Reading that memory is just the beginning and getting a user friendly product with different options for different users is another thing. Hats down to PokerAce, I cannot compare myself to his eforts. Congrats to you Juk for your proof of concept, as I said I have nothing against competition. However I do have the bad habit of putting value on my work and not giving it away for free.
you're kind of sounding like a jerk, and for that reason I will not be purchasing your product just on principal. I'm sure a GUI for Juk's product will come soon.
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:59 PM   #92
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

same same but different...didnt mean to step on someones toes.
I´m a former programmer myself (mostly .xml and biztalk) so I have some clue what it means to maintain such a thing.

I´m not saying that the 25$ is outrageous, I think it´s fair, PA will certainly generate more money and insight to the game. I see both sides and I like the idea of sharing, whether it´s files or knowledge...
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:00 PM   #93
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

Hmm i cant run this -V.

How the hell do i do this lol
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:17 PM   #94
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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Hmm i cant run this -V.

How the hell do i do this lol
Hehe, the good old days of command line programs is dying out

No seriously, their are two ways:

(1) Make a shortcut to FreePHG.exe, then edit the porperties of the shortcut. Look for the textbox which says "Target: " and just add -v onto the command line.

(2) Edit my batch file to look like this: start /low FreePHG.exe -v and then use the batch file to run FPHG.

If it works you should start to see verbose output about new hands and new tables being found, rather than just the blank screen.

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:27 PM   #95
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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If anybody needs to PM me urgently then look in my profile and you can see my email.
Oh, I assumed you wanted us to contact you through your homepage. I guess it is "under construction"...
-Sam

P.S. The nineties called. They want their web-design back.
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:34 PM   #96
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

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I just don't want to spend ages on this, if eventually it gets banned or blocked, but if I get time then I will look into this, as even on my system (1.4GHz/512MB which is fairly old by today's standards) it eats alot of CPU time.

thanks for the reply, figured it was down to that.
guess it's time to get a new system, do you think a p3-750 w/ 128mb ram will be fast enough to datamine 10 tables? All the machine will be doing is datamining.
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:43 PM   #97
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Re: FPHG v0.01 available

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If anybody needs to PM me urgently then look in my profile and you can see my email.
Oh, I assumed you wanted us to contact you through your homepage. I guess it is "under construction"...
I know it gets updated like once every 2 years, and keeping them links alive is like "Painting the Forth Bridge"

I'm secretly hoping it could win a prize for "worst HomePage of the year" or something like this?

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P.S. The nineties called. They want their web-design back.
Design? What's that? Good old handwritten HTML...

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:47 PM   #98
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Re: Has the side pot bug caused any problems?

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Does anybody know if PT actually uses the allocated winnings for its calculations (possibly for rake?).
As far as I know it ignores side pots for rake calculations.
The important thing is that this will have litle or no impact for people who do data collection. Their played hands will still be imported from TXT files, and those will always have the correct pots for their personal performance stats.

Observed hands, on the other hand, will still have the correct general statistics for player's behaviors on the various streets. The only stats affected will be things like "Won $$ when sees flop" or other things that take "wins" into account; and even then, the error rate is small -- most pots are not split. Of those that are, most won't all hit the bug. Of those that hit the bug, only half will be lost, because half the time it's the OTHER half of the split that's lost.

Fixing the bug is cool, but impact will be minimal at worst.
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:52 PM   #99
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

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thanks for the reply, figured it was down to that.
guess it's time to get a new system, do you think a p3-750 w/ 128mb ram will be fast enough to datamine 10 tables? All the machine will be doing is datamining.
I think this should be enough, but can't say for sure.

But maybe if you wait a few days people will be able give their feedback and then I can see what sort of problems they have run into on different systems (I only released this 24 hours ago).

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:57 PM   #100
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Re: Has the side pot bug caused any problems?

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most pots are not split. Of those that are, most won't all hit the bug. Of those that hit the bug, only half will be lost, because half the time it's the OTHER half of the split that's lost.
Yes, the bug doesn't always happen and I do have code their to concatenate new data that is seen after the last memory pass.

I agree it will have pretty minimal effects on stats, possibly it might effect NL more bc of the all-ins causing more side pots, but not sure until get more feedback.

Juk
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