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Old 03-07-2006, 09:47 PM   #1
jukofyork
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FPHG (*** NO LONGER ALLOWED AT PARTY - PLEASE READ OP ***)

Updated 25/11/12:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jukofyork View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenitron View Post
Hello community, I got answer from VIP Partypoker support, I cannot copy of letter because it's on russian language, here is main information for you:

Programs FreePHG and PartyEZcash are forbidden to use on Partypoker

the official statement on this subject will be later
Here is the post on the ps.ru forums:

http://translate.google.com/translat....php?boardid=7

Xenitron being a "Black Member" and it being from VIP support gives it a bit more credence, but it's still not 100% confirmed.

I pulled the page and thread for 3 reasons though:

* I don't want people to get into trouble for using something if it is now clearly banned (as opposed to being a "grey area").
* I don't want other software such as PartyEZcash or Holdem Manager to get their users into trouble (no idea why PartyEZcash was listed today?).
* I simply don't have the time to work on it any more and/or make the required changes needed (it may be possible to keep the "real-time" function whilst removing the hand-grabbing part to keep Party happy).
Updated 26/11/12:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Party_Rep View Post
Hi,

With reference to third party software, any program that assists a player to improve their game and collects data on games that they have been directly involved in is acceptable. We do not endorse or allow any third party software that aids data mining and allows you to collect data on games that you have not directly played.

If you need further clarification please contact customer support.

Thanks

Party Poker

Last edited by jukofyork; 11-26-2012 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:02 PM   #2
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

juk,

holy holy holy holy hoyl crap.

this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.

i haven't tried it yet as i am too excited will report back later with trip report.

thank-you so much.
sean

edit--my only thought is i wonder if it might be more prudent to take a stealthier approach so not to draw party's notice too quickly (re: the title of the post) ---like with the previous application.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:04 PM   #3
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

does it track mucked hole cards?
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:19 PM   #4
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Yes, the HHF format is exactly the same as the old HHF files - 100% the same.

There is a tiny CPU load bug though, which means on slow systems it misses the end of some HH's which have side-pots. I will fix this if it ever becomes a problem, but so far it hasn't caused me any problems (and I have a slow system and get this happening quite often).

Juk
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:27 PM   #5
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
juk,

holy holy holy holy hoyl crap.

this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.this is amazing.

i haven't tried it yet as i am too excited will report back later with trip report.

thank-you so much.
sean
Tell us how you get on, a few people have tested it so far, and I originally wasn't going to release it, but the other thread eventually changed my mind...

Quote:
edit--my only thought is i wonder if it might be more prudent to take a stealthier approach so not to draw party's notice too quickly (re: the title of the post) ---like with the previous application.
Yes, but I think since I am trying to stop the profit making from things such as PartyHandTracker and HHSmithey, the fact that I have openly published it like this (for free) will be in its favour.

Juk
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:27 PM   #6
sui generis
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

do you think this is comparable to what smithey is doing?

-eric
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:30 PM   #7
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

juk, nice app.

Will these hhf files stay around after Party is closed?
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:33 PM   #8
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

well we tried to contain the other program and that succeeded. the reason for that is because partypoker clearly reads 2+2 and it's an incredibly simple loophole to fix (though i don't think PTH will be effected if they do fix the loophole). i strongly believe that this stuff should be kept underground.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:38 PM   #9
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

I would guess he used the same methods, but hopefully now people can use this for their own use.

I think the idea of selling data is what really pissed Party off into stopping HHFs, and ******** is likely to eventually do just what Party wants to explicitly stop in their T&C.

If Party want to close the loophole used (which there seems quite alot of evidence that they may not actually want to stop this), then they can easily.

Juk
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:40 PM   #10
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

The HHF file get saved to the same folder where you run the FreePHG executable from, so as long as you don't run it in the PartyPoker folder, they should stay around.

Juk
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:48 PM   #11
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

very nice Juk using it right now!

is there a way we can load more than than 10 observed tables at once without using windows multiple user trick..

how is this an improvement from PHT btw they appear to do the same thing right?
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:52 PM   #12
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
well we tried to contain the other program and that succeeded. the reason for that is because partypoker clearly reads 2+2 and it's an incredibly simple loophole to fix (though i don't think PTH will be effected if they do fix the loophole). i strongly believe that this stuff should be kept underground.
I am not sure if this post may get deleted anyway, but hopefully by then enough people will see their is a free alternative. If Party do read these threads then their are 2/3 existing threads which clearly talk about, and show that this loophole exists.

My intention is not to get this loophole fixed, but is simply to try to put an end to the kind of thing Party gets mad at (ie: other people/companies profiting). As TT pointed out in another thread, it may even turn out they left this loophole for us to use (they also left Dealer Chat for some unknown reason, and today's update hasn't blocked either).

I think if they are going to block this then at worse this simply accelerates the inevitable. Also, it is not the end of the world if they do fix this loophole. This is not the only method which can be used, it is just the most obvious/simple one to implement. If they do decide to plug this loophole, then I will obviously not be as keen publicise any other methods I have looked into and will be forced to keep them underground.

Juk
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:56 PM   #13
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
very nice Juk using it right now!

is there a way we can load more than than 10 observed tables at once without using windows multiple user trick..
I don't know of anyway to get more than 10 tables open, possibly multiple accounts on the same XP system?

Quote:
how is this an improvement from PHT btw they appear to do the same thing right?
No improvement (and clearly zero interface, and hacky code). It just does exactly the same thing as PHT does and took about 1/2 a day to code up - therefore its free and will stay free...

Juk
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:56 PM   #14
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
strongly believe that this stuff should be kept underground.

I agree with this ..with the solution free and more players using it Party may be more likely to crack down on any/all loopholes regarding this matter... I like the approach PTH guy had:he was very low key,the app was cheap and it has worked great..not taking anything away from your work at all Juk. If this can be kept low key thats cool if not both apps may get nixed by Party sooner than later.
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Old 03-07-2006, 11:13 PM   #15
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
Quote:
strongly believe that this stuff should be kept underground.

I agree with this ..with the solution free and more players using it Party may be more likely to crack down on any/all loopholes regarding this matter... I like the approach PTH guy had he was very low key,the app was cheap and worked great..not taking anything away from your work at all.
If this thread does get taken down, then I hope people will keep using this free application rather than PHT.

It was the fact he tried to claim it took some huge level of 'technical know-how' and hours of work to do this that eventually made me decide enough is enough

In reality it took very little time and could just have easily been written in Visual Basic. The Pacific Handgrabber for example is a significantly bigger piece of work (in the order of 20-50x this to decode the raw packet information), and this sells for $5 if I remember correctly.

If anybody goes back to check the original pacific HandGrabber thread, you can see my question about it. When I saw he only charged $5, then I decided against open-sourcing my code which did almost the same (only limit ring games - and it took MUCH more work than this).

Also nobody listened to my 'stealth post' in the ******** thread, and it is that type of thing I fear is much more likely to have huge implications than this type of app. They have made their position very clear on data sharing, yet they seem to have left several easy to exploit loopholes for this type of application.

Juk
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Old 03-07-2006, 11:42 PM   #16
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
yes, but I think since I am trying to stop the profit making from things such as PartyHandTracker and HHSmithey, the fact that I have openly published it like this (for free) will be in its favour.
I think Party, and similar type companies, really only have two concerns about such software:

1) Is the presence of such software 'talked' about a lot, to the extent that the amount of talk could hurt their market (ie. scare players away)

2) Does the software provide some level of unfair advantage?

Their publicity material talks about their disliking companies who sell such software (or related services), but it is not at all clear that Party mean that giving it away for free is any better. Possibly the idea of someone giving something useful away for free never occured to them!

I wouldn't put too much reliance on Party's written word ("We do not scan your hard drive or take screen shots from your machine.").

Your program, whether it is free or not, will increase the likelihood of Party responding to its type, because it, and your releasing it, suffers from both #1 and #2 above.

The question is whether you see Party's increased likelihood of responding as a positive, or negative, consequence to your action?

If you want the technique blocked (if you see this as beneficial to poker), then you've done the right thing, and should continue to do so.

If your issue is to do with people selling products that you could write for free, so you do it, and undercut their market, then I don't really understand this. The world is full of people who can do things I cannot (eg. make shoes, give lapdances, etc), and I am happy to pay for their services - if I want them. Or not to pay for them if I don't (as I chose with HHSmithey and PHT).

As skilful and knowledgaable as you are, you're going to be a very busy person if you don't like people charging for anything you can do.

In the event that you agree with me Juk, please do not change your behaviour until after you have written a quality replacement for Windows, a spam blocker, and a totally effective virus blocker. I'd be very appreciative
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Old 03-07-2006, 11:58 PM   #17
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Hi

I'm having some issues with the import part of this, partially because I'm retarded, I'm sure. what's the best method for getting these imported into party poker? the Party auto import or the lightning bold auto import?
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:00 AM   #18
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

It wont let me unzip the file. It tells me its not a valid archive. Any ideas?
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:01 AM   #19
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
Hi

I'm having some issues with the import part of this, partially because I'm retarded, I'm sure. what's the best method for getting these imported into party poker? the Party auto import or the lightning bold auto import?
I'm also retarded..can anyone give us a crash course on how to get this up and running.
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:05 AM   #20
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
It wont let me unzip the file. It tells me its not a valid archive. Any ideas?
No idea why but... Download it from Internet Explorer and it seems to work. From Firefox the archive is invalid.
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:06 AM   #21
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
It wont let me unzip the file. It tells me its not a valid archive. Any ideas?
Try copy and pasting this into your browser.

http://freewebs.com/jukofyork/FreePHG_v0_01.zip

worked for me.

Now on to T&C issues. Is it true that party will give you a warning for this before doing anything else, assuming they were ever to crack down (and were somehow able to).
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:08 AM   #22
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

It is one thing to say that software should be free and to claim that you can build an equivalent app in half a day - it is quite another thing to follow through and do it. Well done!

rvg
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:25 AM   #23
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
I think Party, and similar type companies, really only have two concerns about such software:

1) Is the presence of such software 'talked' about a lot, to the extent that the amount of talk could hurt their market (ie. scare players away)

2) Does the software provide some level of unfair advantage?

Their publicity material talks about their disliking companies who sell such software (or related services), but it is not at all clear that Party mean that giving it away for free is any better. Possibly the idea of someone giving something useful away for free never occured to them!

I wouldn't put too much reliance on Party's written word ("We do not scan your hard drive or take screen shots from your machine.").

Your program, whether it is free or not, will increase the likelihood of Party responding to its type, because it, and your releasing it, suffers from both #1 and #2 above.
I honestly cannot predict how they will react to something like this, but I think that many others could have just as easy have done what I have (and I am sure many others have but won't admit it or release their code).

Yes, I could have just kept my version hidden, and until today I pretty much planned on doing this. For example: I had written a Pacific Hangrabber type utility quite a bit before the commercial version was released, but the difference was the Pacific Hangrabber author didn't try to make such a huge profit ($5-$10 was a very fair price for the work required IMO). The comments today in the other thread by the PHT author just didn't go down well with me and my belief system, so this is my way of rectifying it as best I can

Quote:
The question is whether you see Party's increased likelihood of responding as a positive, or negative, consequence to your action?

If you want the technique blocked (if you see this as beneficial to poker), then you've done the right thing, and should continue to do so.
No I don't want it blocked, but I think whether their is a commercial version or a free version in circulation will most likely make little difference. I could have kept this quiet and 'underground', but I think at worst this may accelerate their decision making process and force them to clarify their position on applications like this (free or payware).

Quote:
If your issue is to do with people selling products that you could write for free, so you do it, and undercut their market, then I don't really understand this. The world is full of people who can do things I cannot (eg. make shoes, give lapdances, etc), and I am happy to pay for their services - if I want them. Or not to pay for them if I don't (as I chose with HHSmithey and PHT).

As skilful and knowledgaable as you are, you're going to be a very busy person if you don't like people charging for anything you can do.
Maybe this is just my belief system, but I have always believed in the benefit of sharing knowledge and skills, and if others take advantage of this and don't return the goodwill, then so be it. Others may have a different viewpoint on life and different goals, and everybody is welcome to their own personal ideals, these are just mine...

Quote:
In the event that you agree with me Juk, please do not change your behaviour until after you have written a quality replacement for Windows, a spam blocker, and a totally effective virus blocker. I'd be very appreciative
I have lived through pretty much the whole era of home computers, and all I can say is that a "replacement for Windows" really wouldn't be such a bad thing and if I had multiple lifetimes (and was a more motivated person), yes I would try to right this wrong also, but sadly I don't and this is a different story...

Juk
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:28 AM   #24
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

juk could you help with that above question?
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:29 AM   #25
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Re: Free Party Hand Grabber v0.01 available

Quote:
Quote:
It wont let me unzip the file. It tells me its not a valid archive. Any ideas?
No idea why but... Download it from Internet Explorer and it seems to work. From Firefox the archive is invalid.
Yes, sry this same problem has hit me multiple times now. Its either something to do with my free host or my copy of winrar makes corrupted zips?

If anybody can re-host this, then plz do and feel free to repack the archive (the license notice is only to protect myself from problems, not to stop the code from being redistributed...).

Juk
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