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Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer!

04-24-2011 , 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55
Wait, street by street EV cannot include non-showdown hands because you cannot know your percentage chance to win for any street in a hand that is not showdown.
Street by Street EV takes Overall Winnings value for hands without showdown. So we do not calculate anything for hands without showdown.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
04-24-2011 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73pipes
Street by Street EV takes Overall Winnings value for hands without showdown. So we do not calculate anything for hands without showdown.
But what you need to do is totally exclude all winnings of hands without showdown from any street by street EV which is what you should expect to win at showdown from you showdown hands. Then you compare it to actual winnings from all showdown hands to attempt to determine your luck in showdown hands. Some argue it is biased because it cannot include non-showdown hands so it is not a true measure of your luck. But I find it better than nothing or just all in EV versus all in winnings.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
04-26-2011 , 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55
But what you need to do is totally exclude all winnings of hands without showdown from any street by street EV which is what you should expect to win at showdown from you showdown hands. Then you compare it to actual winnings from all showdown hands to attempt to determine your luck in showdown hands. Some argue it is biased because it cannot include non-showdown hands so it is not a true measure of your luck. But I find it better than nothing or just all in EV versus all in winnings.
Excluding all winnings of hands without showdown from any street by street EV means that you are to compare all graphs with showdown winnings, not with Overall Winnings. We can't do so because current users of HM/PT are already used to compare All-In EV with Overall Winnings graph. Moreover, you are to display one more graph (in our realization two graphs), I mean SD winnings, which often just litters visual space. I suppose it wolud be more usefull to create function wich will allow to display only hands with showdown for all graphs, if you need that.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
04-26-2011 , 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73pipes
Excluding all winnings of hands without showdown from any street by street EV means that you are to compare all graphs with showdown winnings, not with Overall Winnings. We can't do so because current users of HM/PT are already used to compare All-In EV with Overall Winnings graph. Moreover, you are to display one more graph (in our realization two graphs), I mean SD winnings, which often just litters visual space. I suppose it wolud be more usefull to create function wich will allow to display only hands with showdown for all graphs, if you need that.
But in hands that don't showdown, you have no idea what your street by street EV was or how to calculate it. So any street by street EV that includes any non-showdown hands is meaningless and just a guess.

Also, you can't compare all in EV with overall winnings. You compare it to overall winnings in all in hands; not all hands. So you compare street by street EV to winnings in all showdown hands; not all hands.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
04-26-2011 , 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55
But in hands that don't showdown, you have no idea what your street by street EV was or how to calculate it. So any street by street EV that includes any non-showdown hands is meaningless and just a guess.

Also, you can't compare all in EV with overall winnings. You compare it to overall winnings in all in hands; not all hands. So you compare street by street EV to winnings in all showdown hands; not all hands.
We do not guess anything for hands without showdown and there is nothing to calculate inside. But such hands have it's result: you folds and lose some money, or your opponent folds and you win some money. Our graphs as well as HM/PT graphs take the value of result of such hands, not the expectation value wich is even impossible to obtain.

Lets imagine that we are to graph 3 hands:
1st hand: You folded and lost $10 (there was no showdown).
2nd hand: Your opponent foded and you won $20 (there was no showdown).
3d hand: Your stacks on preflop and won $100 with AIEV=$80 (there was showdown).

That is how HM/PT and we do it.

Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
04-26-2011 , 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by digit
Will this ever be able to work with 45man Sngs?
If HM or PT recognizes its blinds levels, it will.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-01-2011 , 05:42 AM
UPDATE TO: beta 6.
  • Cooler Hunter exports right panel settings into posted graph.
    Example: http://pokerchups.com/ch/1c383cd30b7...0293adfecb7b18
  • Fixed displaying graph in bb, wich had crushed in previous update.
  • Some improvements in working with databases (now it should work more stable).

Cooler Hunter will update automatically.
If you have some problems with update, delete the current version from your computer and download a new one.




Some explanations.
I see that something is not clear for some of you, so I have to share my thoughts about this program, specifically about All-In EV, Street by Street EV and Cooler Hunter EV. All of these methods of luck estimation are mathematical, but the number of factors they calculate are different. Someday, graphs of All-In EV, Street by Street EV and Cooler Hunter EV will match with Overall Winnings graph and with each other. But there is one rule: the more factors are taken into calculations of the graph, the more accurate it is in every current moment.

What is All-In EV?
All-In EV=[Final Pot - Investitions]*(Equity of hero in the moment of all-in)-[Investitions]*(100%-Equity of hero in the moment of all-in)

I don’t know who was the inventor, but the philosophy of this method is to run away from calculations of difficult situations and that is not what we strive for. Actually we have included All-In EV only for convenience of yours. All-in EV has two negative moments:

1. All-In EV takes value of overall winnings if there was no all-in in the hand, so it doesn’t provide any information about hands without all-in.

2. Imagine that you invest 90% of stack on flop, having 98% of equity, and go all-in on turn investing the rest 10% of stack with 0% to win. It is bad-beat, but All-In EV says it is a bad play, and that you invest 100% of money with 0% to win. But it is not so. Such example is rare, but anyway All-In EV doesn’t calculate expectation values of streets which forgo all-in.

But Street by Street EV solve this moments.

What is Street by Street EV?
Street by Street EV = Preflop EV + Flop EV + Turn EV + River EV
EV per street = [Money you can win]*(Probability of win) – [Money you can lose]*(Probability of loss) + [Money you can win when split the pot]*(Probability of tie)

It is based on Skansky bucks and calculates all streets separately making final EV of the hand balanced. It calculates showdown hands with and without all-in, so you get more information.
But there is still one factor that is not calculated.

What is Cooler Hunter EV?
The biggest pots you win and lose occur when poker room deals you cooler situations. You must have had sessions where you got several times KK against AA stacking preflop, then several sets against oversets, and some flushes against overflushes. Most of that times you and your opponents stepped on the gas both playing correctly, but it were exactly you who was doomed to failure. Such sessions are not a bad play of yours; they are just unlucky days, which could last for weeks.
And we have found a way how to take coolers under consideration, and how to calculate them.

The probability theory says that in future you will get inverse coolers accurate within every factor and will win (lose) back money you have lost (won). That’s why cooler EV = 0. Unfortunately, All-In EV as well as SbS EV, which calculations are based on equity can’t display the truth of coolers. They go down after described session, and rise only when inverse coolers happen. But you should know, that deviation distance could be too lengthy (200 000 hands, 300 000 hands and much more), while it is important to estimate your skill in comparison with battlefield of playing stakes right now.
Cooler Hunter Algorithm will help you! It is named so because of its target: based on Street by Street calculations it finds streets with coolers and kills their expectation value, making it equal to zero.

You are only to set the bottom level of coolers according to your feelings of played stakes. But be accurate! Set only certain, hundred-per-cent coolers. If you go lower, you will kill positive EV, which could be result of your skill. And don’t worry about coolers which are lower than the bottom level of certain coolers you set. Cooler Hunter EV is a modified Street by Street EV. So every situation which is under coolers bottom level you set is calculated in Cooler Hunter EV as it Street by Street method does. In other words, Cooler Hunter is a hybrid of Street by Street EV and cooler EV.

What is Bad/Delicate Play filter?
Imagine that you value-bet with nut-flush on 4-flush board against weak player and get call with fifth flush. Should it be a cooler, if you set to calculate clashes of flush+ combinations as coolers? No. You have collected value and realized your advantage, and this hand should be calculated in Cooler Hunter graph as positive EV. And there are a lot of other specified situations that can’t be named a cooler in spite of that they satisfy cooler filters on the right panel. But nothing was left to chance: Tick “Apply Bad/Delicate Play filter” and Cooler Hunter will keep expectation value of such streets alive, calculating them as Street by Street method does.

What about rake?
Cooler Hunter calculates all the graphs with subtraction of rake. As for Street by Street, we separate (spread) rake between streets with consideration to maximum rake. And we remember that cooler EV = 0 – rake, so Cooler Hunter EV is also ok.


Cooler Hunter could be confusing for beginner players as poker software. It is unusual jumping graph, which requires a distance of hands played, and what is more - understanding of your play, played stakes. But it creates a new picture of your poker career. It should open your eyes, because most of you trend to remember bad coolers and to forget hands you won just because your opponent had a hand a bit weaker than yours. Cut out coolers where you are just to bet and raise, and see how you play in difficult situations (it is one more thing that Cooler Hunter graph is about).

The current version of Cooler Hunter is a simple prototype. A lot of things are not realized, some bugs are not fixed and we need your bug reports, feedback and requests of future functional to continue. And ask any questions, if something is not clear, please.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-01-2011 , 10:28 PM
When I press the start button the software crashes every time. I tried several diffrent configurations. I am using Win 7 64bit. Can you help?
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-02-2011 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krischan
When I press the start button the software crashes every time. I tried several diffrent configurations. I am using Win 7 64bit. Can you help?
1. Right click on the Cooler Hunter application shortcut on desktop, select "Properties".



2. Select "Compatibility" tab and make changes like it shown here:



3. Press OK. And try to run Cooler Hunter again.

It should help.

Are there any other Windows 7 64bit users having the same problem?
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-02-2011 , 01:34 PM
I did what you wrote. Unfortunately it didn't help. any other idea?
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-04-2011 , 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krischan
I did what you wrote. Unfortunately it didn't help. any other idea?
Try to select "XP" or something else instead of "Vista". And tell about results, please.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-04-2011 , 12:57 PM
I have the same problem. Putting it in XP or Vista compatibility mode + running as admin didn't work either.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-05-2011 , 12:16 PM
Hi,
can somebody share his cooler hunter stats from Boss Media ( IPN ). I am not sure if I am so unlucky(I know that I am behind EV, but not sure if so much) or it is because of BM software (they didnt allow seeing mucked cards...) Thanks...

Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-06-2011 , 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krischan
I did what you wrote. Unfortunately it didn't help. any other idea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TilICollapse
I have the same problem. Putting it in XP or Vista compatibility mode + running as admin didn't work either.
Replace original file "CoolerHunter.exe" in installation folder with this one ( www.pokerchups.com/CoolerHunter.exe ), please. And tell if it fixes problem.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-06-2011 , 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55
Wait, street by street EV cannot include non-showdown hands because you cannot know your percentage chance to win for any street in a hand that is not showdown.
It also shouldn't include hands where multiple players see the flop but then only one villain goes to showdown with you.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-06-2011 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder
It also shouldn't include hands where multiple players see the flop but then only one villain goes to showdown with you.
Technically, true, but any EV analysis, except just all in EV, is going to have some flaws unless all hole cards are known. The problem with all in EV is that the number of hands it includes is so small.

I still find street by street EV useful even though it is not mathematically perfect or completely accurate.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-06-2011 , 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55
Technically, true, but any EV analysis, except just all in EV, is going to have some flaws unless all hole cards are known. The problem with all in EV is that the number of hands it includes is so small.

I still find street by street EV useful even though it is not mathematically perfect or completely accurate.
Correct, but the situation I described introduces such gross inaccuracy as to make those hands worse than useless for evaluating "luck", by skewing the otherwise valid average results way out of whack. It's easy to think of examples that give a totally wrong picture of EV. I agree it can be useful, but "luck" isn't what is being measured if you include those.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-06-2011 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73pipes
Try to select "XP" or something else instead of "Vista". And tell about results, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73pipes
Replace original file "CoolerHunter.exe" in installation folder with this one ( www.pokerchups.com/CoolerHunter.exe ), please. And tell if it fixes problem.
I tried both. Still the same error.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-06-2011 , 08:09 PM
any update for sngs? (specially husng support)
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-07-2011 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krischan
I tried both. Still the same error.
We've made some fixes, and i hope this ones can help u.

Re-downlowd and replace CoolerHunter.exe in installation folder (http://www.pokerchups.com/CoolerHunter.exe)
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-08-2011 , 02:42 AM
Thanks a lot. This time something has changed. I get the message that an Int16 is too big or too small:

Code:
Informationen über das Aufrufen von JIT-Debuggen
anstelle dieses Dialogfelds finden Sie am Ende dieser Meldung.

************** Ausnahmetext **************
System.OverflowException: Der Wert für einen Int16 war zu groß oder zu klein.
   bei System.Int16.Parse(String s, NumberStyles style, NumberFormatInfo info)
   bei System.Convert.ToInt16(String value)
   bei .(DataTable& , Boolean& )
   bei .(Boolean& )
   bei  .(Object , DoWorkEventArgs )
   bei System.ComponentModel.BackgroundWorker.OnDoWork(DoWorkEventArgs e)
   bei System.ComponentModel.BackgroundWorker.WorkerThreadStart(Object argument)


************** Geladene Assemblys **************
mscorlib
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.225 (RTMGDR.030319-2200).
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll.
----------------------------------------
CoolerHunter
    Assembly-Version: 0.1.4.0.
    Win32-Version: 0.1.4.0.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/PokerChups.com/Cooler%20Hunter/CoolerHunter.exe.
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll.
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll.
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Management
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100).
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Management/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Management.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100).
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll.
----------------------------------------
hhacbrwt
    Assembly-Version: 0.1.4.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll.
----------------------------------------
Npgsql
    Assembly-Version: 2.0.10.0.
    Win32-Version: 2.0.10.0.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/PokerChups.com/Cooler%20Hunter/Npgsql.DLL.
----------------------------------------
System.Data
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100).
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_32/System.Data/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Data.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Core
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Transactions
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100).
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_32/System.Transactions/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Transactions.dll.
----------------------------------------
Mono.Security
    Assembly-Version: 2.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 2.0.0.0.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/PokerChups.com/Cooler%20Hunter/Mono.Security.DLL.
----------------------------------------
System.Numerics
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Numerics/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Numerics.dll.
----------------------------------------
e3gpseeu
    Assembly-Version: 0.1.4.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll.
----------------------------------------
ZedGraph
    Assembly-Version: 5.1.5.28844.
    Win32-Version: 5.1.5.28844.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/PokerChups.com/Cooler%20Hunter/ZedGraph.DLL.
----------------------------------------
mscorlib.resources
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100).
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/mscorlib.resources/v4.0_4.0.0.0_de_b77a5c561934e089/mscorlib.resources.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.resources
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.resources/v4.0_4.0.0.0_de_b77a5c561934e089/System.resources.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms.resources
    Assembly-Version: 4.0.0.0.
    Win32-Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel.
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms.resources/v4.0_4.0.0.0_de_b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.resources.dll.
----------------------------------------

************** JIT-Debuggen **************
Um das JIT-Debuggen (Just-In-Time) zu aktivieren, muss in der
Konfigurationsdatei der Anwendung oder des Computers
(machine.config) der jitDebugging-Wert im Abschnitt system.windows.forms festgelegt werden.
Die Anwendung muss mit aktiviertem Debuggen kompiliert werden.

Zum Beispiel:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

Wenn das JIT-Debuggen aktiviert ist, werden alle nicht behandelten
Ausnahmen an den JIT-Debugger gesendet, der auf dem
Computer registriert ist, und nicht in diesem Dialogfeld behandelt.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-08-2011 , 05:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krischan
Thanks a lot. This time something has changed. I get the message that an Int16 is too big or too smal
Please provide us some info about your computer configuration - os, service pack, 32/64 bits, .net version, PSQL version. So we can figure out problem.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-08-2011 , 09:23 AM
- Window 7 professional 64 bit german, no servicepack
- Net Framework installed runtimes:
2.0.50727.4959
3.0.4506.4926
4.0.30319.225
-postgreSQL 8.4
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-09-2011 , 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal_Oggy
Hi,
can somebody share his cooler hunter stats from Boss Media ( IPN ). I am not sure if I am so unlucky(I know that I am behind EV, but not sure if so much) or it is because of BM software (they didnt allow seeing mucked cards...) Thanks...
Could you zip some hand histories and send us on support@pokerchups.com? The more HH's the better. And provide your database nickname, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder
It also shouldn't include hands where multiple players see the flop but then only one villain goes to showdown with you.
Why? It is dead money. We have thought about that a lot and got an opinion, that we must calculate everything that overall winnings includes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ServerBTest002
any update for sngs? (specially husng support)
Currently not. =(
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote
05-09-2011 , 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73pipes
Why? It is dead money. We have thought about that a lot and got an opinion, that we must calculate everything that overall winnings includes.
Two reasons. Because it's impossible to know the equity. And because you are now mixing decisions (skill) with a luck measurement.
Cooler Hunter EV - Innovative Luck Analyzer! Quote

      
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