[HUD] PokerTracker 4 for Windows & Mac OS X - 2+2 Support Thread
03-09-2013
, 03:40 AM
Do u guys realize that ur calculating EV for SNGs slightly wrong? Ur using the total hand equity instead of breaking it down into win/lose/draw %'s.
Example: 8d6d v QcTc
8d6d has 37.072% total equity, but has 36.65% win and 0.43% tie.
QcTc has 62.928% total equlty, but has 62.50% win and 0.43% tie.
When calculating EV, PT4 is using total equity and ignoring the event of a tie.
Obv this only makes a very slight difference in 1 hand, but can build up to be very significant over a large sample.
IS PROBLEM, fix it
Plus, i havnt checked yet but i was told PT4 is treating same hand situations (AKo v AKo) as 50% and 50%, which is lol. Has this been fixed yet?
Example: 8d6d v QcTc
8d6d has 37.072% total equity, but has 36.65% win and 0.43% tie.
QcTc has 62.928% total equlty, but has 62.50% win and 0.43% tie.
When calculating EV, PT4 is using total equity and ignoring the event of a tie.
Obv this only makes a very slight difference in 1 hand, but can build up to be very significant over a large sample.
IS PROBLEM, fix it
Plus, i havnt checked yet but i was told PT4 is treating same hand situations (AKo v AKo) as 50% and 50%, which is lol. Has this been fixed yet?
03-09-2013
, 12:59 PM
Did you discover this on your own, or did you read about it in a thread? We have found that most threads discussing this have misrepresented the issue, if so please share the URL so we can check it out and provide an explanation why virtually all developers were doing the same thing, and how we have been working to create an improved equity calculation solution that incorporates the potential for ties.
PokerStrategy's Equilator is a great example of a free application that shows Win-Tie Loss in an overview display in a method that allows you to copy the results. PT4's equity calculator was not designed to replace Equilator or other similar tools, it was designed to augment the replayer's street by street equity display by allowing you to create ranges for your opponents. In the next version of PokerTracker 4 we include an option to show equity ties, click the save menu and then select Display Ties,
Last edited by PokerTracker; 03-10-2013 at 03:11 PM.
Reason: Better explanation of improvements in pending PT4 release
03-09-2013
, 01:07 PM
PS: Its not what you asked for, but also try experimenting with a display type of Lower Opacity, that may blow your mind!
03-10-2013
, 01:30 PM
For example we have Fold to Raise After F Cbet, and we also have this stat specifically measured for 3Bet + Pots and non 3Bet+ pots.
For your flop cbet then call & flop cbet then reraise requests we don't have those exact stats, we chose to leave them out because for most users it is more effective to use stats such as Fold to F 2Bet or Fold to F Check Raise. With that said, if you require it then these can be created as a custom stat without too much trouble. Some of the custom stats already available in the download warehouse include Check Fold to T Bet After CBet & Call Flop and Fold to Delayed Turn CBet.
Skip flop Cbet is the inverse of Flop Cbet, its not necessary as a stat but if you really wanted it, you could create the inverse of flop Cbet. Not quite sure what you mean by "and check call" in this situation, but you may want to look at Call F Float Bet.
Float Turn = Percentage of the time that a player bets in position on the turn after the aggressor fails to continuation bet on the turn.
Formula: Number of Times Player Float Bet on the Turn / Number of Times Player Could Float Bet on the Turn
- TT
03-10-2013
, 02:30 PM
- TT
03-10-2013
, 05:49 PM
Quote:
Yes, we knew that "ties are missing" from nearly all ICM Simulation software because we were the ones who alerted others in the community that virtually all of the competitive applications were doing the same thing (without naming names). We have been working on an alternative solution since the early fall IIRC. We just finished coding an update that better incorporates ties for two way all-ins that we are currently testing in alpha for Holdem games, we expect it to be available next week. This is the first stage in our equity improvements that accompanies many new changes in tournament calculation options that you will see in the next version - and there is more to come. This is not easy to code, there are a surprising amount of tricky situations that we need to be able to account for in our database, its a lot more complicated than just simple math, but you will soon see some of the improvements we have made.
Did you discover this on your own, or did you read about it in a thread? We have found that most threads discussing this have misrepresented the issue, if so please share the URL so we can check it out and provide an explanation why virtually all developers were doing the same thing, and how we have been working to create an improved equity calculation solution that incorporates the potential for ties.
Thats a simplified explanation, its not really accurate, but its close enough for this thread. I believe the potential for ties were overlooked for so long because it's the equivalent of a rounding error and in turn requires longer processing time to address that rounding error, but we have already addressed it and you can expect it in our next release.
We have found that our improved algorithm does not create any significant changes in our test databases that will be visibly noticeable in your graph in very large samples, as stated above the problem is mostly a rounding error issue. With that said, the improvement in accuracy is a worth while investment in our development time, hence ties are now properly addressed.
In the PT4 equity simulator we only display the hand equity, we don't display the Win, Tie, or Loss percentages - but these are factored in behind the scenes. Win Lose & Tie percentages are more helpful when sharing results, PT4's equity calc was not designed to share results like Equilator is, This was a choice we made for development resources, it allowed us to focus more time on the features we added that others don't have such as range modeling, and the incredibly powerful range creation tools for Omaha. Maybe someday we will revisit to consider adding a more in-depth display, but since it has ben requested very few times its not on our priority list at the moment (priorities include OSX, TagTracker, and other yet to be announced features - such as tie compensation in the next release).
PokerStrategy's Equilator is a great example of a free application that shows Win-Tie Loss in an overview display in a method that allows you to copy the results. PT4's equity calculator was not designed to replace Equilator or other similar tools, it was designed to augment the replayer's street by street equity display by allowing you to create ranges for your opponents. In the next version of PokerTracker 4 we include an option to show equity ties, click the save menu and then select Display Ties,
Did you discover this on your own, or did you read about it in a thread? We have found that most threads discussing this have misrepresented the issue, if so please share the URL so we can check it out and provide an explanation why virtually all developers were doing the same thing, and how we have been working to create an improved equity calculation solution that incorporates the potential for ties.
Thats a simplified explanation, its not really accurate, but its close enough for this thread. I believe the potential for ties were overlooked for so long because it's the equivalent of a rounding error and in turn requires longer processing time to address that rounding error, but we have already addressed it and you can expect it in our next release.
We have found that our improved algorithm does not create any significant changes in our test databases that will be visibly noticeable in your graph in very large samples, as stated above the problem is mostly a rounding error issue. With that said, the improvement in accuracy is a worth while investment in our development time, hence ties are now properly addressed.
In the PT4 equity simulator we only display the hand equity, we don't display the Win, Tie, or Loss percentages - but these are factored in behind the scenes. Win Lose & Tie percentages are more helpful when sharing results, PT4's equity calc was not designed to share results like Equilator is, This was a choice we made for development resources, it allowed us to focus more time on the features we added that others don't have such as range modeling, and the incredibly powerful range creation tools for Omaha. Maybe someday we will revisit to consider adding a more in-depth display, but since it has ben requested very few times its not on our priority list at the moment (priorities include OSX, TagTracker, and other yet to be announced features - such as tie compensation in the next release).
PokerStrategy's Equilator is a great example of a free application that shows Win-Tie Loss in an overview display in a method that allows you to copy the results. PT4's equity calculator was not designed to replace Equilator or other similar tools, it was designed to augment the replayer's street by street equity display by allowing you to create ranges for your opponents. In the next version of PokerTracker 4 we include an option to show equity ties, click the save menu and then select Display Ties,
With the AKo v AKo thing, i more specifically meant a situation such as AhKs v AdKh. In this situation AhKs is a slight favorite because it has 2 flush possibilities (hearts and spades) with AdKh only having 1 (diamonds).
Dont see why PT4 would be doing this because in all other calc, it uses specific suits not just AKs v Q9o for instance. Just something i got told from a pretty reliable source, so wanted to ask.
Looking forward to the new release
03-10-2013
, 09:36 PM
