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Old 11-01-2011, 04:52 PM   #9276
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re: PokerTracker 3

The Rake statistic in PT3 shows how much rake was taken out of pots that you personally won.

Different sites calculate rakeback based on different numbers - so the amount taken out of pots you won will correlate to some extent but almost certainly not match exactly what your rakeback will be. If you tell us how your site calculates rakeback we can tell you how to set up PT3 to show you that value for you.

- Kraada
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:50 PM   #9277
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re: PokerTracker 3

So I am an SNG/MTT player on Stars and I ve been trying to reorder my databases the past couple of days and this is what I ve found:

For some time now, PT3 has introduced tournament auto-detection which possessed the purported benefit of figuring out tournament type and prizes earned as one was playing. However that detection capability is not reliable at all. I would say that tournament types are accurately detected at a rate of 30-40% at best. So, the benefit that's supposed to come out of that feature is useless. The same is true of tournament winnings. If one wants to find out accurately his exact winnings, he has to import tournament summaries.

Not to mention that the filters themselves are confusing. So for example, a 180 turbo SNG ideally gets classified by PT3 as 20 table turbo SNG. But if you want to filter it under the general SNG or MTT-SNG categories, you can't. If you want to filter it as a 20 table SNG regardless of whether it's a turbo you can't.

Another benefit -real this time- of tournament autodetection is that rebuys are calculated correctly (although add-ons are not).

If however, I manually import tournament summaries emailed from Stars having checked the option to overwrite old summary data:

- I get all tournament finishes accurately.
- I lose the ability to tell apart turbo from regular tournaments.
- Rebuy data are overwritten and lost.
- Rebuy tournaments are lost as a filtered out category.

However, the major benefit is this: The kind of filters I do get (essentially tournaments are categorized as MTT, MTT-Satellite, MTT-Bounty, 20-table SNG, 5-table SNG, 2-table SNG) are reliable to the dot and therefore useful to me.

Moreover, losing rebuys isn't as big of an issue because I can accurately import rebuys and addons from playing history audits.

So the answer to me is clear:

1. Work to simplify your filters. The old filtering system perhaps didn't have as many bells and whistles but it worked and wasn't confusing. Look at the sharkscope filtering system. I think it's a good implementation.

2. Work on the ability to detect turbos and rebuys from manual summaries not through autodetection. I guess autodetection is convenient for many people, but if one wants to be thorough, he has to get email summaries.

Thank you for your time.

Last edited by leviathan74; 11-04-2011 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:08 PM   #9278
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re: PokerTracker 3

Ok and two other things I noticed.

Bounties aren't imported.

When I import from player history audits, the statistic that measures the number of players participating in a tournament gets screwed up. It's not a biggie, but number of players can be used as an extra layer if you want to check for mistakes in filtering. And it should be an easy fix.

I am using 3.11.3.
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:12 AM   #9279
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re: PokerTracker 3

Can we get this to work on Cake 1.0? Most multi table regs use that software as it is more stable and a lot faster.
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:54 AM   #9280
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re: PokerTracker 3

leviathan74 - please attach some example hand history files to a Support Ticket on the PokerTracker website for the tournament types which are not detected correctly and we will see if the rules can be improved. When types change or are added the rules need to be updated, and some types may not yet be configured.
For non-STTs you need to import the summaries because that is the only place that full results information is written - it can't all be inferred from hand history files when there is more than one table.
Similarly several other pieces of information that you want just aren't available in the files that PokerStars write - that is why the auto detect mechanism is needed in the first place. We detect as much as possible, but there will always be some things we can't infer, and until the sites start writing more complete tournament type and summary information there will always be a few holes.
Once the tournament types are set correctly the filters should work, though. For instance a "MTT (20 table) SNG" should be found by filtering for "MTT", "(20 table)" or "SNG". If you're having problems with that please also open a support ticket about that.


Theduke211 - Cake 1.0 is old software and will therefore not be supported in PT3.


--WhiteRider
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:50 AM   #9281
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re: PokerTracker 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerTracker View Post


Theduke211 - Cake 1.0 is old software and will therefore not be supported in PT3.


--WhiteRider
Doesn't that fact that most regs use it, make it something you should consider supporting?
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:04 PM   #9282
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re: PokerTracker 3

I do not know the details, but it may be that there are technical issues which mean that the Cake 1 software cannot be supported. Either way, adding support for older versions of sites is unlikely to be done - the version that Cake provide by default, and continue to support and update, is version 2 so that is what we support.

--WhiteRider
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Old 11-06-2011, 12:24 PM   #9283
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re: PokerTracker 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theduke211 View Post
Doesn't that fact that most regs use it, make it something you should consider supporting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerTracker View Post
I do not know the details, but it may be that there are technical issues which mean that the Cake 1 software cannot be supported. Either way, adding support for older versions of sites is unlikely to be done - the version that Cake provide by default, and continue to support and update, is version 2 so that is what we support.

--WhiteRider
I can confirm with WhiteRider that Cake 1.x software cannot be supported due to technical reasons on Cake's end. They stopped developing for the 1.x platform over 1 year ago, the changes PokerTracker used to support the creation of a HUD for Cake are only available in the 2.x client.

PS: From what I am told, most Cake users have abandoned the 1.x client. Only a few skins remain on the 1.x client, the majority have switched to 2.x. If my understanding is incorrect, please let us know. Thnx!

-- TT
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:25 AM   #9284
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re: PokerTracker 3

Hi,

Im using kraadas custom hud for tourney's, I like it thanx.

One minor problem, it doesnst do the colouring for 'preflop 3bet vs steal' it just stays white.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:50 PM   #9285
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re: PokerTracker 3

hi,

I have a problem with pokerstars and a big database (in fact using 4 databases):

I get different stats in my table HUD and my popup/tablescanner (using the Turbo Table Scanner), e.g. the hud shows just 84 hands while the popup/scanner shows the right amount of hands (in this example the player had in fact 4,8k lol). I have all databases activated for my hud so this couldn`t be the problem (also all caches are 100%)
Sometimes the HUD even displays something like 3 or 4 hands although I set it up to just pop up when there are 20 or more hands (this is maybe due to the fact that I have way more hands than the HUD shows..)

how can I change this? Very irritating...


this dont happen at others sites, but I also dont have that amount of hands on microgaming or ongame
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:58 PM   #9286
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re: PokerTracker 3

MakeBelieve - I'll let Kraada get back to you about that.

Furo86 - PT3 only uses hands from your local database; does your Turbo Table Scanner use the same data?
Please open a support ticket via the PokerTracker website and we'll give you a link to how to send us your log files so that we can see what is going on.

--WhiteRider
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:08 PM   #9287
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re: PokerTracker 3

yes it uses the same data (thats why my PT3 popup has the same stats as the table scanner!)

will send you a ticket
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:03 AM   #9288
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re: PokerTracker 3

Quote:
Once the tournament types are set correctly the filters should work, though. For instance a "MTT (20 table) SNG" should be found by filtering for "MTT", "(20 table)" or "SNG". If you're having problems with that please also open a support ticket about that.
Yes, you are right about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerTracker View Post
leviathan74 - please attach some example hand history files to a Support Ticket on the PokerTracker website for the tournament types which are not detected correctly and we will see if the rules can be improved. When types change or are added the rules need to be updated, and some types may not yet be configured.
I will send you some if you insist, but I think it's unnecessary, for reasons I am going to explain bellow. For the time being, allow me to provide an illustration of the size of the problem I described in my original post. I created two databases from scratch with my 2010 hands. On the first database,I imported tournament summaries and I checked the option to overwrite tournament summary data. On the other, I imported tournament summaries without checking that option.

Here's how tournament types look on the one database where I had the option to overwrite checked:



If I cross check those results with those I see on Sharkscope and OPR, they do seem very accurate. I cannot say for certainty that I played 9,430 45-man SNGs to the dot, but I can feel very confident that the actual number is very close to the one I see. And that's true for every MTT category in that table. And those 5-6 categories are meaningful to me; I can examine my results and my underlying stats for each of those tourney types knowing they are are fairly accurate and reliable.

What is missing is the ability to filter MTTs by speed -whether they are regular or turbo- and whether they are rebuys or not. Now, add that ability and I am a happy camper.

Now let's see how the other database -which basically relies on autodetection- looks (remember, we are looking at the exact same tournament universe):



First the good news. This method does better at detecting tourney speed and rebuys. The problem? We don't know how accurate it is. Why? Well, based on sharkscope, OPR and the previous table, I believe I ve played around 11,000 45s and 10,000 180s. But with this method there only 6,000 turbo 45s detected and another 700 non-turbo 45s. There are 3,000 45s missing or rather misclassified. Out of the 10,000 180s I have played, only a 1,000 are detected. And while regular MTTs have been separated from turbo MTTs, it is obvious that many of the 180s have been classified as turbo MTTs, a fact which renders the turbo MTT filter invalid. Moreover, among the other mistakes and misclassifications, around 730 tournes have been classified as STTs and I most definitely haven't played that many.

So how useful are these filters for me? Answer: None at all. They have very little reliability and they are so flawed that it doesn't seem worth trying to fix them.
Quote:
For non-STTs you need to import the summaries because that is the only place that full results information is written - it can't all be inferred from hand history files when there is more than one table.
Similarly several other pieces of information that you want just aren't available in the files that PokerStars write - that is why the auto detect mechanism is needed in the first place. We detect as much as possible, but there will always be some things we can't infer, and until the sites start writing more complete tournament type and summary information there will always be a few holes.
I do have to say that I feel a tremendous amount of sympathy towards PT programmers and the challenge they re faced with. There are cash games and tournaments, SNGs, 6 max and HU, No limit and Limit, Omaha and what not, Pokerstars and Full Tilt and a million other different permutations. And you are asked to provide accurate statistic for every little nook and cranny of the poker universe. And I am only one player in my small corner of the universe.

I also do see where you re coming from when you say that for some game types, you need to use auto-detection in order to get some pieces of information you cannot get otherwise.

BUT. Looking at the games I play at Pokerstars (and this only means I cannot speak with certainty about other sites and game types I don't play), I do think that you can get a lot more from player history audits.

Case in point #1. You are trying to import bounties via autodetection. Why don't you do it through player history audits? Each bounty you win in a knockout tournament is registered with the code 3063. Both the time and the tournament the bounty was won in is shown. As an outsider, it looks like an extremely easy fix of a feature that doesn't work at all right now:



Case in point #2. You are trying to import rebuys through auto-detection. But there are problems with that and addons aren't imported either way. If one wants to do it accurately, he uses the playing history audit. Why don't you get the tournament type from the playing history audit instead of trying to do it through auto-detection?

Case in point #3. But it's not only rebuys. Looking at my playing history audit, it seems to me that there's all kinds of information which is tough to get through autodetection that is easily accessible and reliable. There's the precise type of tournament, whether it's regular speed or turbo, a rebuy or not, a 180 MTT-SNG, a 45 MTT-SNG and so on and so on.




This isn't to say that playing history audits are a cure-all. I suspect it's going to take some time to get all the kinks ironed out and I know for a fact that they contain outright mistakes and mysterious tournaments that never happened. But again, it does seem as if far more can be accomplished through them.

I do want to say that I am not writing all that in order to be difficult or to whine or to make your life difficult. I am writing in order to help you so that both your software is better and my life is easier.

I hope I helped. Cheers.

Last edited by leviathan74; 11-09-2011 at 05:13 AM.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:04 PM   #9289
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re: PokerTracker 3

leviathan74,

The development team have been discussing your post, and I have this response from them:

Thanks for this report and your continuing support of our product.

Tournament auto-detect is a system that is constantly improving. It takes everything at hand and figures out the best possible description of the tourney. For a few sites, hand histories contain very accurate data and auto-detect may be less accurate. Certainly for PokerStars, auto-detect should be used.

For PokerStars it's sometimes impossible for auto-detect to distinguish between a 2, 3 and 5+ table when you're eliminated in the early rounds. In the auto-detect dialog, you can coach the system by telling it what to use (rather than a generic MTT) when it's unsure. But yes, I see Audit file data can help here.

There are several points that I'd like to address.

-problems combining Speed and Table filters. Yes, the table filter is seeking an exact match, so you'd need to click ALL the table types that contain "MTT" AND "Turbo" rather than Table:"MTT" and Speed:"Turbo" to get the desired result. We will fix this so it is more intuitive.

PS Audit Files: Please understand that PokerStars Audit files have gone through some recent changes. When support was originally written there were less accurate details. We will do our best to improve audit file import. Code "3063" sure looks like a bug in the audit file, but you're right, it should be supported.

Case in Point #1: PS Audit files code "3063" - this will be supported. PT4 has much more comprehensive support for bounty tourneys and and bounty detection for all sites.

Case in Point #2 & #3: We do attempt to decode table info from audit files. The problem is that other information like seat count is not supported, so importing audit files with "Overwrite Tourney Summary Data" should make table type more accurate but might make other data inaccurate. I will take a look into this area and see what I can do. BTW: PT4 tourney auto-detect has very accurate rebuy and addon detection for all sites.


--WhiteRider
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:31 PM   #9290
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re: PokerTracker 3

I sometimes start full ring tables and someone who I've played a lot of full ring with sits down with me. The problem is my HUD has stats for them for when they're playing full ring. How do I make a HUD that filters for only their heads up stats?
any response is appreciated!
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Old 11-09-2011, 04:15 PM   #9291
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re: PokerTracker 3

Hi, I want to configure my PT3 HUD so that I only see numbers like 33/29 instead of VPIP: 33 PFR: 29 etc.
How can I do this? Also how do I color code specific numbers?
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:53 PM   #9292
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re: PokerTracker 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktiktik View Post
Hi, I want to configure my PT3 HUD so that I only see numbers like 33/29 instead of VPIP: 33 PFR: 29 etc.
How can I do this? Also how do I color code specific numbers?
In pokertracker, click "configure" on top, than choose "configure HUD"

A window will pop-up, you can select the profile you want to edit. Tourney or cash. Also make sure you choose the right group, in your case "player stats"

Click on the "stats" tab, now you can see the statistics displayed in your hud. Single click the stat you want to edit (double click removes the stat) and look at the properties below. If you want to remove, pfr, vpip etc, goto "prefix" and backspace those characters.

Almost the same procedure if you want to colour a stat, but now click the stat you want to colour and click, "colour ranges" below.

edit: of course after you finished press "apply" to confirm the changes you made

This youtube video gives you a nice idea of the basics and covers the above and some more things you can do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLRRn...9CF223A9DE26FE

Last edited by MakeBelieve; 11-09-2011 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 11-10-2011, 05:41 AM   #9293
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re: PokerTracker 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokper3 View Post
I sometimes start full ring tables and someone who I've played a lot of full ring with sits down with me. The problem is my HUD has stats for them for when they're playing full ring. How do I make a HUD that filters for only their heads up stats?
any response is appreciated!
You can do that by configuring Player Ranges in the HUD Options.
If you configure a range like 2 - 2 then when you are playing heads-up you will only see stats from previous hands played with 2 players. Similarly a range from 3 - 6 would only show stats from hands played with between 3 and 6 players when you're playing with that many at your current table.
You can define multiple ranges like 2-2, 3-6, 7-10. Ranges must not overlap, and any number of players not covered by a range will use all previous hands.
See the HUD Guides in the documentation on the PokerTracker website for more information.

--WhiteRider
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:23 AM   #9294
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re: PokerTracker 3

leviathan74, A little follow up from yesterday, having had more time to think..

As far as filtering goes, if you filter for "MTT" under "Tables" rather than "Table Types" then it will include all variations of MTT tournaments.
You can also filter for "Turbo" in the "Speed" section, and you can combine these using AND or OR in order to see all turbo MTTs or all MTT or Turbo tournaments, as you like.

Note: If you filter for "MTT" under "Table Types" that is only tournaments which are labelled exactly as "MTT", but if you use the "MTT" filter under "Tables" then that includes any variation of MTT tourney.

--WhiteRider
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:57 PM   #9295
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re: PokerTracker 3

Today i imported some old processed file to my new computer, and now the HUD does not work completely. The auto-import seems to work and the HUD is up on the tables but it do not update. I need to go in to setting and press apply so the hud restarts.

I also noticed that pokertracker misses a lots of hands. Maybe there some logic explanation, but sometimes it misses like 20 hands. But my winnings seems to be pretty right. I play on william hill iPoker.
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:58 PM   #9296
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re: PokerTracker 3

Thank you for your response, I appreciate it. Some notes:

Quote:
Tournament auto-detect is a system that is constantly improving. It takes everything at hand and figures out the best possible description of the tourney. For a few sites, hand histories contain very accurate data and auto-detect may be less accurate. Certainly for PokerStars, auto-detect should be used.

For PokerStars it's sometimes impossible for auto-detect to distinguish between a 2, 3 and 5+ table when you're eliminated in the early rounds. In the auto-detect dialog, you can coach the system by telling it what to use (rather than a generic MTT) when it's unsure. But yes, I see Audit file data can help here.
I don't understand how I can coach the system. I am also not aware of any auto-detect dialog.

You say that in some tourneys it's impossible to autodetect whether a tourney is a 2,3, 5+ table SNG if you get knocked out in the early rounds. I agree, this is the case. Crucially, no matter how good you are, you will get knocked out in the early rounds a certain percentage of times, so you will have a certain percentage of tournaments (5-15%) not getting detected.

But why is this a problem? We get 99.9% accurate information by importing emailed tournament summaries. This is a solved problem. Why are we trying to fix it with a method that we know won't work as accurately?

Quote:
-problems combining Speed and Table filters. Yes, the table filter is seeking an exact match, so you'd need to click ALL the table types that contain "MTT" AND "Turbo" rather than Table:"MTT" and Speed:"Turbo" to get the desired result. We will fix this so it is more intuitive.
I agree. And I wanted to say it earlier. It does seem as if a large problem with autodetection is that it's trying to categorize every single tournament precisely. In that goal, it's failing. But if it was trying to just fill certain pieces of the puzzle complemented by other methods, then it could be useful.
Quote:

PS Audit Files: Please understand that PokerStars Audit files have gone through some recent changes. When support was originally written there were less accurate details. We will do our best to improve audit file import. Code "3063" sure looks like a bug in the audit file, but you're right, it should be supported.
I agree. I know that a PS history audit didn't always contain as much analytical information as the one I posted. I was looking at an audit file I had from last year and it I don't think it contain as much information as the file from where I posted the screenshot. And certainly the code 3063 wasn't obvious to me either; I had to email PS support some time ago in order to find out what it was.

I do have to note that things have tremendously improved the last couple of years. These days our winnings are reported accurately. A couple of years ago, we couldn't import rebuys and addons. Now, we can and it just works.

I also understand that when PT3 introduced auto-detection, PS audit files hadn't yet been introduced by Pokerstars. So with what your development team knew then, trying to find out info through auto-detection was the reasonable course of action.

But here's an important reminder. Often times people and organizations set a course of action, but at some point the underlying data which made following that direction the logical choice change... But instead for those people and organizations changing their direction based on the new underlying data, they keep on going the original course just because they are so focused on the process of what they re doing. It's a mistake I ve often done in my life and you should think carefully if you re doing it yourself. I am not saying you are btw, because I truly don't know all the data myself.

Quote:
Case in Point #2 & #3: We do attempt to decode table info from audit files. The problem is that other information like seat count is not supported, so importing audit files with "Overwrite Tourney Summary Data" should make table type more accurate but might make other data inaccurate. I will take a look into this area and see what I can do. BTW: PT4 tourney auto-detect has very accurate rebuy and addon detection for all sites.
What do you mean by seat count? And just to be clear, I would not check the option to overwrite tournament data when I am importing from a PS audit file. I would just let it import complementary data.

Just for the record, based on the information we know and the tournaments I play, this is how the process would look ideal for me.

1. Step one. Import hands through auto-import.

Leave the autodetect on for players who perhaps have use for it. Perhaps let it do stuff like detect whether a tournament is a turbo or not.

2. Step two. Import emailed tournament summaries with the option to overwrite tournament summary data checked.

This will give me:

a. Accurate gauge of my winnings. (the most reliable method of all it seems to me, and really accurate 99.9%)

b. Accurate gauge of my finishes and the number of players who entered a tourney. Again, the only method where you can get accurate data for these parameters.

c. Accurate gauge of the table types I play, whether they are 180s, 45s, MTTs, MTT Sats or Mtt bounties.

3. Step three. Every month or so, but really whenever one feels like, import player history audit from pokerstars. This time, I would leave the option to overwrite tournament summary data unchecked.

This method would add -not overwrite- the following information to tournament files:

a. How much I paid in rebuys and addons. (already does, very accurately)

b. How much money I won from bounties in knockout tournaments.

c. Which tournaments are turbos and which regular speed, which tournaments are rebuys and which aren't.

If those steps are established, I don't think I ll be missing any relevant data point (buyins, winnings, rebuys, addons, bounties would be counted) and all relevant filters would be working properly (MTT, MTT-SNG, MTT-SAT, Speed, Rebuys).

Again, thank you for your time.

Last edited by leviathan74; 11-10-2011 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:12 AM   #9297
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re: PokerTracker 3

I've been using PT3 for awhile and it's been working fine, but today my comp froze and I had to hold the power button to turn it off. Now PT is no longer able to access all the hands in my database. When I auto import, I get this error:

Fatal Exception during Auto-Import process: Unable to execute query: INSERT INTO player VALUES (0, 0, '[Split Pot]', '[Split Pot]', 0, 0, 0, FALSE);; Reason: Fatal Error (ERROR: invalid page header in block 277 of relation "player" )

And when I hit the tournaments tab to look over hands, no players or hands show up, only this message:

Unable to execute query:
SELECT player.id_player,
player.id_site
player.player_name,
player.val_icon FROM player
WHERE player.id_player > 0
AND player.id_player_alias = 0
AND player.id_player in(
SELECT DISTINCT
tourney_holdem_hand_player_sta
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:18 AM   #9298
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re: PokerTracker 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerTracker View Post
MakeBelieve - I'll let Kraada get back to you about that.

--WhiteRider
update: I think I solved the problem with the Kradaa custom layout.

The stat "PF 3Bet NVBS Colored by PF 3B Percentage Vs Steal" wasnt coloured coded, so I colourcoded it with the customstat (which was in the package) "Raise vs steal atempt"
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:47 AM   #9299
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re: PokerTracker 3

After installing the latest update I get a password error.I tried a bunch of the recommended passwords but none of them worked.The weird thing is that after I click proceed anyway, everything works, all of my hands are there and it also imports correctly but I keep having to go through multiple screens to use my pokertracter.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:10 AM   #9300
MakeBelieve
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re: PokerTracker 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeBelieve View Post
update: I think I solved the problem with the Kradaa custom layout.

The stat "PF 3Bet NVBS Colored by PF 3B Percentage Vs Steal" wasnt coloured coded, so I colourcoded it with the customstat (which was in the package) "Raise vs steal atempt"
It seems to work but sometimes the stat still stays white, is this the corect method? maybe '= 18' isnt correct?
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