I don't know where the company behind PT is based but if this product was sold in germany (and many other countries too obv.) I'd so be getting my money back.

"But there are no refunds"?! Yeah right its up to the seller to decide that, when his product doesn't work as advertised.

btw I really don't care about this, because when PT will e better than HM I'll switch back again. But in the meantime it really feels good to bash because of this obvious
misuse of a brandname for a quick money injection into an incomplete project.

Yeah you told everyone to try the trial and that there are no refunds later. But come on when everyone is assured that everything will be fixed and working soon, why would we not trust you?

In the end the grudge comes from you using our trust in your product and our trust in you as a respected part of this community.



ps. this is also not about HM, because I'd use PT2 without it. And that's not the PT2 licence that came with PT3.

+1

So we keep getting told it will be leader. And so people keep trusting.

One thing though about them having been in business long: The person doing PT3 is not the same person that did PT2. The new person paid to use the PokerTracker name. He has been in software for many years, but he does not have the experience of PT2 to draw upon if that is what you were thinking. PT3 is basically another newbie entering the market. I dont think so many people realized this at commercial launch. Im certain many used the history/experience/legacy of PT2 as justification to buy PT3 when really they are not related at all.

If Im wrong about any of the above (possible, but I dont think so) I apologize, and Im sure PokerAce will correct me.



This seems spot on as admitted here:
"Those responsible for PT3 did not receive a single penny of PokerTracker income until we released PT3, so it's not like we had a ton of resources to use in our testing or development phase. The initial release was rushed due to business arrangements, anxious partners"
(Partners anxious about what I wonder. HM?)

And if PT3 really does have a larger user base than HM, as PokerAce implied earlier, then wow, there really is no justice in the world and it just shows you the power of brand name.

If PT3 got released with the name "PokerAce's Tracker" and the true relationship to PT2 was more known, I wonder if all those people would have still rushed out to buy it on day one.

Putting the arguments of the state of PT3 behind for a little while. The whole issue of it not being PT guy behind this is here or no there in a way. Video games are produced by different people, movies are, etc, etc The guy behind PA HUD is on board with PT3, which the vast majority of people thought was a fantastic product and he had an equally good rep. So the whole trying to pull a fast one with the name doesn't really hold much water. Branding yes, some sort of underhand tactics is pushing it a bit far. You should always judge the latest version of a product on its own merits, windows vista vs windows xp vs windows me comes to mind.

Ironically the thing that is causing the problem with PT3 is not the tracker, but the HUD, which is what the guys previous product was. You hardly see any posts about the tracker crashing or the stats being incorrect, it is all about the HUD.

Also there was and still is a free trial. What I think has annoyed people more than the initial problems, is the lack of progress in getting these things solved. I bought PT3 after beta testing, knowing there were some issues with the product, but expected a month down the line for the vast majority of them to be sorted, in the way that PT / PAHUD managed to get stuff updated with a day or two of poker client updates (obviously more simple tasks, but the speed of changes was impressive).

HM had loads of problems to start with, and I was hugely disappointed with that product when first released. But the large amount of credit that Roy + MikeChops have received is down to frequent updates attempting to fix the problems. There is confidence in the community that Roy is always on the case and a fix is only ever a day or two away.

I know that there is a lot more going regards development at PT3, but they have chosen (wrongly IMO given the current opinions of many of 2p2) to hide a lot of this away from the community. Bit like a swan, more work than you realise is going on under the surface, but little to show above the water line, until you notice that it has traveled further than you thought across the lake.

Nice post but I disagree about the name/brand thing. I think many people assumed the experience of PT2 would be going into PT3 and that this would be hugely significant. (And it no doubt would have had it happened.) Im sure this affected the purchasing decision of many.

Is that not what all brands are about? If I choose to buy a a Sony TV or a a Toyota Car (be it that I am upgrading to a new version of a product or a completely different product from their range) it is probably down to a previous good experience with one of their products . The chances are that at best only a very small number (if any) of the people who designed, built and tested the previous items were on the team for the new one. However you assume that because it is say a Sony product that it will have the same level of quality. Sometimes the reality doesn't live up to the expectation.

I think at the time when HM and PT3 have come out, people were crying out for a next-gen tracker / HUD. HM has managed to make a lot of sales on the basis they were first to market, first to get it stable and feature rich. If PT3 had been called PokerAce Tracker and got to market first they too would have enjoyed good sales, probably even more, due to PA HUD good name. Roy / MikeChops kinda of came out of nowhere in terms of not having a really high profile previous software package (Yes I know Roy had a tournament management software, but nothing on the scale / popularity of PT2 / PAHUD etc).

Instead PT3 guys purchased the brand and are using that as the way into the market place. Don't a lot of companies do exactly the same thing? Apple use the success of iPod to push all sorts of products as Apple I this and Apple I that. I don't think there is one team at Apple producing all the ideas, hardware configs, software etc etc for every product they launch, but iPhone has barged its way into the cell phone market place due to the popularity of iPod brand and the cult of Apple. Experience in making cell phones, none, expectation that iPhone was going to be the best cell phone ever, massive. Reality, impressive, but doesn't live up to the hype. Blackberry / trio can do a lot of what iPhone claims better (especially for business types), camera is rubbish, no flash support, no 3G (in first release).

This is an embarrasing post.
Its on your head that PT3 is way below par, not people with axes to grind ir any of that rubbish you posted, just get the ****ing thing sorted.

Sure, you are correct. As I say, it just goes to show the power of brand name.

Although these companies you talk about at least have a continuation in their company philosophy across development teams. And people at the top remain constant over a long period and are responsible for maintaining the personnel and structure beneath them. Eg Steve Jobs.

If Nokia bought the Apple name and it wasnt too well known, then started pumping out iPhone2, a lot of Apple fans might feel a right to be pissed later if iPhone2 didnt live up to the standards of the original. More of a right than those iSheeple currently complaining about the iPhone 3g problems.

I'm not really sure how to phrase this without it sounding harsher than I mean it, but you really need to get someone to write, or at least look over, these statements before you post them publicly because this stuff really just looks like paranoid rants with little to no basis in reality.

I've followed the threads on both PT3, HM and PEV pretty closely since the products were announced and I have not seen any evidence of people wanting PT3 to fail because of it's name/position (or any other reason for that matter).

In fact, I've been more than a little amazed at how much slack loyal PT3-users have cut you in the recent months.

I think a lot of the venting going on in this thread has its roots, at least in part, in there being relatively poor communications between the PT3 team and the users over the development timeline. Ok, there's a thread on it, but the information content in it is pretty low. Add to that the fact that we've had no updates in over a month, and that the communications on here during that month have been along the lines of ''the HUD isnt working yet but itll be really powerful", AND that your average user (e.g. me) finds it hard to see what benefits a ''powerful'' HUD will have over the one in HM (which seems pretty powerful as it is), and its easy to see why people are getting frustrated.

So, could I suggest that the development timeline is amended with more information, something like this:

Beta 16 (end Aug)
HUD now works
Auto table opening
other stuff

Beta 17 (end sept)
Auto rate
limit conversion
Ongame

Beta 18 (end oct)
EV functionality

Beta 19 (end nov)
Integrated notes system

Or whatever - just something with more detaes and more information on plans.

This will have two benefits: 1 - more informed people are generally happier people, and 2 - you'll get invaluable fedback on what people would most like to see implemented next (e.g. I would scream loudly that a notes system is more important than EV)

so.. when are the higher ups at 2+2 going to realize the crap us PT3 users are going through and do something. I know PT3 are sponsors here but what does that say about 2+2 that they condone this crap treatment of loyal paying customers?! I am about to goto HM if this doesnt change quick, I will ask for a refund doubt I will get it the way they have treated and supported this product so far.

PT2 was done by Patrick and as far as I know he has little to do with PT3. Apples and oranges.

2p2 should have nothing to do with this. It isn't their problem and they should not get involved. Pretty weird idea actually.

2p2 should not get involved in this matter.

All that needs to be done is for PT3 staff to do their jobs and actually update their software.

What I am saying is that PT3 is a sponsor in this forum topic right? I am not saying they need to get involved per say but need to think about what is happing to their users via a sponsor.

This forum? no. This is the independent, twoplustwo "Software" forum.

There is a "PokerTracker" sponsored forum also, which is maybe what you are talking about. But that is not here, not this topic.

so yesterday I did a session with PT2, just to remind myself what old times were like. I think PT3 is WAY ahead of PT2. I thought PT2 was better, but I after playing back to back sessions, PT3 is definetly an improvement.

You should work on your spelling first.

I still don't get it. They haven't done anything malicious or underhanded. They are honestly working on their product and haven't ripped off anyone. You can be pissed that you spent money on software that isn't developed to the point that you think it should be but that's not malicious. You had a free trial period, it says on their site that there are no refunds. I've defended and been a critic of the PT3 people but they aren't dishonest.

This.

Agreed. Its not like they took our money and then disappeared off the face of the Earth. They are still giving us updates and trying to make their product better. Being a Computer Science major myself I know what goes into developing software and all you idiots who think adding more programmers will make it faster have no idea what you are talking about.

I think you mean grammar. Thanks for the try though.

sorry havn't played in awhile and just tried this and when I went to the command prompt and tried to enter "reindex-a" it asked for a password. I have no idea what it would be

If you installed PostgreSQL with PT3, the default password is "dbpass". If that's not it and you have forgotten it, please see this guide for instructions on how to disable the password.

[x] fail.