I'm a noob but from my understanding Monker uses abstractions that are not as accurate. How inaccurate that means is a complete guess to me though. I'm still trying to find out which tool works best for my needs... but first I need to work on the one I already bought which is PIO

Does the rounding feature only work on fully solved trees ? I have a bunch of sims were I saved the trees as small (no rivers). Do I have to run these again if I want to use the rounding feature ?

Would it be possible to give a hint on how to query and receive info from the solver with an external tool? I was able to figure out how to communicate with the solver using UPI but I only see the results in the command prompt. How do I get the info to an external tool?

dumb question which i know has been asked a thousand times so i apologise:

https://gyazo.com/c651aff135146dc10fccc719b64e98c4

IP betting is split 44%check and 56%bet 1/3rd. When comparing the EV difference between check and 1/3rd bet theres little to no difference apart from some hands preferring bet over check (although negligible).

So does this mean i can just range bet 100% and it will be exact same profitability? No need to complicate it to mix strat and simplify it to one action on this board. Is there any complications to doing that?

Hey Punter, you mentioned on the earlier pages that there is a difference between older and newer CPUs. Are you talking about the improvements of IPC of newer generations? If so, then I guess it makes sense that newer ones are definitely faster than older ones by some X%. Like for example Ryzen 3xxx series have roughly 15% IPC improvement over Ryzen 2xxx series. Which means that when compared side by side, the same speed and the same core count, the 3rd gen is faster by 15% on avg.

Saying this, I think it will be helpful for your future customers to have like a page in your website where you have a compilation of benchmarks from people or even better have PIO gather those bench results so it will be easier for customers to find a good server for their needs.

Also Pio edge will always be at least 2.5x faster than Pio pro when using the same hardware right?

I am sorry for late replies. I was away for 3 days and had very limited Internet access.
Let me answer the questions from recent days in chronological order:

I am not sure why you wouldn't be able use node-locking. Anyway, it's better to just build a tree without a check. Please refer to this post for instructions:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=5469

It's EV at this point in the tree.

It's not simple weighting but weighting which takes card removal into account. EV of all hands is weighted by number of possible matchups (so how often that hand happens against opponent's range).

Yes, put:

in remove lines field to make IP always cbet the turn. For OOP it would be:

The goal is to remove a check at the point you want a given player to always bet.

It's better to ask Monker's author as I am not really following that project. My understanding from the time of its release is:

-it uses bucketing to make the tree smaller (gluing various but similar hands together hoping that common strategy for all of them doesn't influence the solution negatively too much)
-it uses an algorithm which doesn't have guarantees of converging to equilibrium (nor is final solution measured in any way) but which has some good properties (like guaranteeing that hands which take pure actions (for example bet 100%) converge to that after some finite time

Those are interesting to run but have limitations. We will likely add similar funcitonality in the future. We think we can improve over existing tools but sadly some things will stay (like inherent shakiness of multiway equilibrium).

I will forward you email to Kuba (Pioviewer dev). I haven't seen it yesterday when I was answering emails.

Yes because recalculating EVs/exploitability after changing strategies requires the whole tree. If you just want rounded strategies without EVs/exploitablity you can do the following:

1)open arbitrary solver command window (ctrl+b)
2)type:
rebuild_forgotten_streets
[hit enter]
3)round

Please be aware that EVs won't be correct anymore when you do that.

In general you need to open the process, read its standard output and write to its standard input. Libraries for those are available in every programming language. The term to google is: "how to interact with console applications in X language".
Send us an email and we will send you sample code in Python (and maybe in C# I am not sure if we still have it though).

If there is mixing you can ignore it and choose any action which is chosen by the solver with 100% frequency without losing EV. That is only true though if your opponent doesn't adjust. General advice is: follow the solver on pure actions (100% for one action) and use your reads on mixed ones to choose the one most likely to work against particular opponent.
Old AMD CPUs are just very slow. Since Zen came out they are quite fast (previous gen was around 5% slower than Intel per core with the same frequency, the newer one is probably already faster). I am not sure if it's just IPC or other architecture improvements.
The problem with benchmark is that it's difficult to build a universal one. If we set the benchmark to something which is not solving a tree then if the solver changes the way it solves the bench will not be as reliable anymore. If bench is just some iterations of solving (as it is now) then once the algorithm changes older results are not that useful anymore. That means it's not so easy to collect reliable bench results. Additional difficulty comes from various settings (overclocked or not, enough memory dies to work with quad channel etc. etc.).
Definitely not. It only faster on very big hardware. It's marginally faster if you have up to 8 physical cores.

"It's not simple weighting but weighting which takes card removal into account. EV of all hands is weighted by number of possible matchups (so how often that hand happens against opponent's range)."

Thanks. I am not sure I totally follow, but this is what explains the difference between the "real" strategy and what pioviewer shows in the graphic interface? I.e. pioviewer graphic interface uses simple weighted average to calculate betting %, EV, equity etc?

Please give me your opinions on this. I have Pio Pro and looking for a dedicated server online. From what I know, Pro uses up to 16 cores without hyperthreading. You also mentioned as I was searching this thread that the 16 core Threadripper (2950x, I assume) is 2.5x faster on the edge version. So, im also thinking that maybe somewhere in between I should maybe upgrade first to Edge before going ham on the dedicated server.

So I'm looking at dual 8 core Xeons that are reasonably priced for what performance they bring:
1. Intel 2x Xeon E5-2630v3(8c each) - 16c/32t 2.4GHz Base Clock.
2. Intel 2x Xeon Gold 6130(16c each) - 32c/64t 2.1GHz Base Clock.

My questions are:

1. I currently have pro so do you think if I upgrade to edge will i get twice the speed when using CPU 1?

2. Can edge take advantage of this kind of power CPU 2 offers?

I'm not sure how hard this is to implement but you can gather the specs of the computer that used your bench feature in Pio and you guys can compile the results and just average it out. This is just a suggestion though.

Yes, PioViewer shows simple weighted average for strategies by default. This can be changed in Tools->Configuration->Data presentation on 13x13 grid.

I am sorry I can't remember a comment like that. That sounds unlikely.
I very much doubt so unless somehow pro runs using 8cores with hyperthreading instead of 16cores without it which is likely with default Windows affinity settings.

Yes.

It's easy to implement but we prefer not to implement things that sends information about user's computer home. Right now the only information sent back is hardware fingerprint which is encrypted and we can't really see details about the computer (even though licensing service probably can but they don't know user's names/payment data).
We definitely prefer the solver not to use Internet connection once it's activated/license is confirmed either.

Sorry, you were talking about the 2990wx which is a 32 core CPU.

So I guess good rule of thumb is anything under 16 cores, no need to upgrade to Edge. 16 cores+ better upgrade to edge to maximize those optimizations.

Are there any open source / freely downloaded ranges that can used? For example something like BTNvsBB defending range, etc.

Is it posible to make the reports (Runouts aggregated fq analysis) on the later streets, river for example, give you only the analysis for the run out (board) selected in the browser?

Hello

Any idea how to fix this?

https://imgur.com/a/uylao11

There are some preflop solutions available for free here:
https://www.piosolver.com/blogs/news/piosolver-1-10-13

Yes, you can run a report on any point in the tree. To do that first navigate to that decision in the tree and then run the report.

This is a bug in Excel (or other program you are using). I've explained it here:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1666

In general Libre Office or Google Docs should work well out of the box.

Is it posible to make the reports (Runouts aggregated fq analysis) on the later streets, river for example, give you only the analysis for the run out (board) selected in the browser?

When I do this it gives me the report for all the run outs Turn/River not just for the ones that I selected in the browser and when I check the function "include hands in report" the file is so big that libre office can`t open it all.

Is there a way to make Pio compatible with high DPI scaling? I have a 4k monitor and scaling set to 300% in Windows, and Pio looks blurry.

I am sorry I misread your question. It's possible to make a report for any line but not for specific runout only. If you want to export results for a specific runout just navigate there choose EV/strategy/strategy+EV and then right click on 13x13 area to choose what to copy.
What Windows version is it?

Windows 10 with the latest updates.

Can someone explain where the suggested preflop opening raises for 6-max comes from? I don't think there is any hard and fast rules but you often hear things like 15% from EP is "GTO", 20% in EP....

Where do these come from? Are they coming from other programs like Snowie or Monker? This doesn't come from PIO preflop solving correct? From my understanding, the preflop solving helps construct a defending range and strategy AFTER given a range for a particular player (eg IP 15% range vs ???% of OOP). Is correct thinking?

Thanks

When one buys preflop GTO ranges, for example 6 max cash UTG 2bet vs Button Call, don't the preflop ranges assume certain bet/raise/donk sizes on flop,turn and river? Also we would need to use the same bet sizing for post flop analysis with Pio. Is my understanding correct about preflop ranges? Thank you.

Let me try to answer although I am still learning about this. If you were to buy those preflop ranges those should also include the template that was used with all of those variables listed (bet size, raise, donk, etc). Even if the template is not available it should be pretty obvious what your options are when viewing the tree. The preflop suggestions should take into account all of those variables.

The preflop ranges don't have the tree. Just the ranges.

Ohhhh just the range charts. I thought you were referring to the solves. Where did you buy range charts from?