Anyone have Phils address? I wish to pay a visit.

Is there a working version up in the meantime? If not can you just extend the date on the current pokerEV?

The current version on the download page should be working fine.

I've promised to keep a free copy available and I'm going to do that even after the new version goes on sale.

I'm pretty sure this won't happen for at least three months. But it will be added eventually.

I have a question about att. to steal stats for short handed play.

Right now I'm counting a steal as any raise from the CO or Button when folded to. But it doesn't look right 4-5 handed. i.e SB - BB - MP - CO - BTN. CO raising isn't really a steal, whereas 9-10 handed it definitely is.

What do you think? You can define a custom stat to set it up how you want but it'd be good to have it standardized. I'm thinking of limiting it to the button for 5 or fewer players. Ideas?

Not an urgent issue, but it's nice to know that we're going to have this kind of flexibility at some point.

That's an interesting point. I can see that it's not necessarily a steal there since opening up one's range shorthanded should be a natural process and thus it isn't really stealing anymore, as the blinds are expecting you to raise a wide range of hands and are probably more willing to play a wider range of hands oop in response. So one point of stealing, threatening to have a strong hand in position, is somewhat negated.

On the other hand, if the HUD can filter its output based on number of players at table, like the current paHUD does, you still get reliable data at the table, since you can put it in context. So it's probably relatively irrelevant for use with the HUD, but more a matter of working with the stats in the tracking program. And I'd assume that everytime the Att to Steal stat is significantly larger than usual due to shorthanded play, the same would be true for VP$IP. In that case the stats are slightly inaccurate towards 6max play, anyway. Now the problem with changing the requirements for Att to Steal is that all other stats are unaffected and the relation between the stats is now different than with other players in the DB. Relation between stats is actually a big point imo, since a 20/17/3 and a 20/17/0.5 are quite different.

So, I'm actually slightly against changing.

Quote to book.

Ranges drastically change for most players in the CO so I think a pfr from CO is a steal.

If someone only raised 10% or w/e from CO that's useful info too.

CO and Button should be steal positions even in a 4 handed game imo.

I disagree with leaving sb out. The first issue is intent and in 6m, players (even poor ones) are unquestionably more aggressive as it's folded to them because it now appears easier to pick up the dead money and IMO this includes folded to sb. I think this notion of fewer players to fight with holds whether it's 10-handed or 4-handed. I also don't think position or that it's called stealing "the blinds" has any bearing on whether or not sb open raising is stealing - sb has to make a not inconsequential investment to do so esp considering not having the benefit of position.

I think that can all be argued and perhaps my feelings on it are incorrect. But a bigger issue where I am correct is that if you change this and other tracking software does not, that is a PITA because now who knows what which person means if they say "his steal %" if they don't also include which tracking software they're using? Stats are only meaningful in terms of a point of reference and if you change it then all the others need to as well IMO.

In limit, esp 6m, this is an important stat and having pt2/3 and pev and hem and whomever else all meaning something different by it is a problem.

I agree with downrange that you should keep the steal positions standard of CO, Button, and SB.

Yes, this is a no brainer. Changing it or making it variable is a disaster waiting to happen.

^+1

Phil,
The way you're currently doing it is definitely right. There's basically no difference between opening the CO 4-handed vs. 9-handed.

That said, I don't mind you reinforcing the belief that there is in fact a difference .

The mouseover in PT for the Att. To Steal stat says "raised when folded to in the CO or Button" and the stat appears to reflect this. Is this inaccurate?

For the "action vs steal" stats, SB is included of course.

Ugh that would be a huge oversight by PT2.

Yes, if it is folded to you in SB and you raise, it is a steal.

PT3 is including SB open-raises as steals IIRC

As will PEV, if Phil knows whats best for him

SB is obviously a steal, I agree. Looks like it was a mistake in the help file that was never corrected. The odd thing is that PokerOffice has the same definition as PT2 (CO and Button).

Thanks for picking this up. I used to play PLO8 exclusively before the games dried up so I never use steal stats.

I never noticed that but if you ask Pat I'm nearly certain he'll say a pt steal is open raise from co, btn or sb.

The documentation's definitely wrong; if you check such a hand in the actual database you'll see that it's right for both players (attempted_steal for the SB, steal_attempted for the BB).

If there's one or more additional poster in the hand, it's also still a steal as long as he/they checked.

can the seats which count as a steal not bemanualy configured by the user?
IMO there is a difference from stealing in position and in the SB i think peopl steal too much from the SB and its a leak and i would like to be able to identify this

Yeah, I searched it on pt forum yesterday. Pat says steal attempt includes sb, button and cutoff here:

Some questions about meaning of stats


gTg

Yeah, I think giving us the option of having a steal be CO/Btn or including the SB would be good.

I'd prob just use CO/BTN b/c I think SB might inflate steal attempts too much.

I don't pay much attention to steal stats because a steal attempt is so hard to define. What if you have a good hand on the button and raise? Is that a steal attempt? A better stat is percentage of pf raises for each position. This might provide some clue on whether an opponent likes to raise weak in late position to steal blinds.
Realtime Hud has these stats, but IMO lacks other features. Part of my decision on PT3 v. PokerEv will be the HUD and its preferences and stats. Of course, ObserverHud may change any decision.