We will put that on the list.

Can you send some hand histories (feel free to find and replace your name) to

support@holygrailofpoker.com?

Thanks!

I believe on FT Rush you have 20 seconds to make postflop decisions, on other sites or on regular tables it may be even longer. So the pause would have to be at least 20, and maybe up to 30 seconds. It would be annoying to the user, but it's the only way to do it safely.

Here's what I'm thinking....

The clock starts when the user enters the latest community card (i.e., if the hand is a full hand then when the user enters the river card we start counting; if it's just the flop, then it starts counting upon entry of one of the three community cards). Then the clock counts 20 seconds. Then it can be analyzed.

This will allow the user to enter this info first, then enter data about opponents, stack sizes, users hand, etc. By the time they are done, the 20 seconds is likely elapsed (or nearly so) anyway.

Paul,

I think that work. Just verify that no sites allow more than 20 seconds for actions at regular tables.

1. Does the advice feature work on Rush?

2. Is it possible to program a strategy and have it play automatically against your players?

I don't know at what point you are releasing updates but for me the program at present is not worth using.

Until the number of cycles can be increased by the user, the post play analysis (for me) is more annoying and time wasting than helpful.

I am happy to continue to look at the program and help to evaluate it but I will stop doing so until this feature is included.

I am not nagging

This is a personal view and may not be shared by others. Your own development schedule must also be considered.

However, if others feel like me, you may be losing a valuable source of feeback by delaying.

Cheers

Trevor

We hope to have/release this within a week or so (in addition to a lot of other improvements).

Is there a product roadmap and/or revision history somewhere ?

Relevant quote from that thread:


Now the poker community has accepted people who cheated back into the community before (ZeeJustin, Aba20) but Paul flat out lied in this thread and I think it's worthy of discussion (Maybe more appropriate in NVG than here though).

Also, you are being willfully naive (at best) or intellectulay dishonest (more likely imo) when you say that because the money was refunded "nobody was hurt".

It seemed to me that using my own unproven AI as an advisor two years ago was not botting, since at the time many advisors were allowed; however, I won't argue w/ anyone who says that's "splitting a hair". Also, I was the one doing this; we (our company) did not -- but again I won't argue w/ anyone saying that's "splitting a hair".

I think what I did was wrong, and I apologize.

Regarding hurting people, I also think you are right. I was thinking that if the site returned players' $, then they weren't financially hurt. However, I see that by testing our AI this way we could have won $ from someone and lost money to another -- and that doesn't get corrected.

I'm doing all of this because I love the game of poker and the game of online poker. The last thing in the world I would wish to do is to hurt the game.

We do not have it in a public place right now.

We'll likely add a revision history to our forum.

I'm not sure we'll have a formal road map, but we'll discuss it a lot on this thread.

The next release will have party poker, ipoker, support for antes, support for euros, and a number of the other changes requested in this thread.

1. Yes, it works on Rush.

2. No, can't plug in a strategy.

What about setting up multiple accounts to run your AI? Did you think that was wrong at the time? How about after FT shut down your accounts? You still thought it was ok and moved on to a different site where unfortunately for you your bot was a loser. At what point did you decide what you were doing was wrong?


You're missing the point, tt's not about finances. Everyone was paid back from the UB scandal. Did it hurt anyone? Of course it did just the same as every bot ring or multi-accounter does. Every time someone gets caught cheating it erodes the trust of players and damages all of online poker not to mention the reputation of poker players as a whole.

edit: What I'm trying to say is that if your bot was never detected and was a consistent winner, I strongly doubt you'd be marketing this software today.

I always knew it was wrong on some level. I made a difficult decision, and it was a wrong. I was also wrong about this not hurting anyone. I see your point and you are right.

Regarding road map...

Here's the short version...

(0) Add Party & iPoker
(1) Fix bugs identified in this thread (thanks!)
(2) Add support for Poker Tracker and Hold'em Manager (i.e., so it's easier to use our software if you have those products)
(3) Add tournaments
(4) Major AI enhancement
(5) Add heads up


I'm sure a lot of that will change, but that's our current plan.

I'm so surprised that people have not been asking for tournaments. Any ideas why?

pbehrman

Re Neko's concerns:-

I think a major problem here for you is the fact that you appear to have flat out lied in THIS forum.

Your comments about having made a mistake before and feeling (now) that those botting activities were wrong is "fine". Some will choose to believe you and some will not. Some will think that we are all allowed to make a mistake in life and others will not.

Those activities were in the past and the more forgiving in this community may be prepared to put it down to a mistake made by a now contrite individual. There have been examples in the past of people who did bad things; came clean; apologised and have now been "accepted" by some back into the fold.

However, you were asked point blank about this within the last week or so and you simply denied it. In other words (if I have read the thread correctly) you just lied. This was not a younger, less aware, less mature individual who made a mistake some time ago. It is YOU, NOW!

I think you have THAT credibility gap to bridge.

You may well be part of a professional team now looking to build a legitimate business but a business has to build a bond of trust with its customers. I do not think that staring them in the face and lying to them is a good way to start that process.

As always, I am not having a pop at you. Life is too short to get involved in petty vendettas. However, as a potential future customer, I feel it only fair to point out to you that being lied to does nothing but harm.

Let's say that rumours start to be circulated that a) you are stealing HH b) you have a "secret" bot running based on this AI that you have improved from 2+2 posters c) you have made and installed on our PCs an undetectable means of seeing our hole cards and your bot is now a super-user etc. etc. All of these rumours could, I am sure, be shown to be complete rubbish but how much weight would your word carry? You would be asked; you would deny it and........ you can work it out yourself from there

Trevor

Agree with all of TJD's points. Also relevant is that he graduated from an MBA program in 1994 and has in past or still does manage millions of dollars in investments[1]. He is likely in his late 30's which makes the "we should forgive a mistake made by a younger less mature individual" argument less compelling.



[1] http://www.evolutioncap.com/about.html

"less compelling" perhaps but still relevant. I am 61 and still wish I wasn't so bloody stupid sometimes.

The moment we stop learning (especially from our mistakes) we may as well be dead.

Cheers

T

Fair enough, but perhaps you'll reconsider when you read this quote from a thread at deuces cracked.

What kind of maths is this program using?

Is it using Bayesian techniques and exploiting normal distributions?

Is it using a Kalman filter?

hey folks check out my blog at DC. I has a vid in there of this software I made. fwiw DC has nothing to do with it, I did it on my own to see how beastly this Ivey worthy AI was.

Will you enter Holy Grail in the Annual Poker AI competition so we can see how good it really is?

http://www.computerpokercompetition.org/

It's uses simulation based on Bayesian theory.

I don't think they offer or play multi-player No Limit. We don't play heads up at this time.

We have considered having a web cam watching our AI play Poker Academy's AI all the time.

Would that do much for you?