Thanks scylla for good post.

I see HSNL players use a 1/3 or 1/4 CB on many flops with close to 100% frequency, and then split range on turn into multiple sizing. Do you think also think that this adds very little EV to their strategy?

CREV uses monte carlo for multiway spots. The advantage of monte carlo is that it always works in any spot, and can therefore, for example, be used to research the card removal influence of 8 people folding prior to reaching SB vs BB play. You are however correct that when it comes to heads-up 3-way play we could expand our engine to include an enumeration variant as well. We can look into adding this for later releases.

Thank you for the feedback,

Scylla

Thanks for clarification!

I would not expect it to make much of a difference. From what I can tell so far, the overall EV performance of hands does not seem to depend very strongly on the complexity of play. The most important factor seems to be the quality of play, as opposed to the number and/or size of the bets. You can test this for yourself though by creating a tree with complex play, and one with basic turn/river followup play and checking how much the EV for OOP drops in his very first decision.

Hi Scylla, I hope you are well.

Instructions for GTO Plus

I have watched the videos for GTO Plus, and tried it. I still don't understand how to properly read and use the result page, though. Are there any written insructions? If not, please at the minimum create a one page screenshot with arrows pointing to things saying what they are, and what the buttons do.

Thanks Scylla. The page I am talking about is the one shown on the top right of you home page: http://www.gtoplus.com/

Regards
Rod

how is it possible for a single bet size to have a higher EV than multiple betsizes? the 5spr_3_3_3 tree has a spr of 5 with 3 betsize on each street of 33,66,150. the 5spr_33_3_3 tree has a spr of 5 with a flop betsize of 33 and turn and river of 33,66,150.

@Scylla Im thinking of buying a new pc because GTO+ is simply too slow on my current one. Do you think that a i5-8250U Quad-Core, 1.60 GHz with Turbo upto 3.40 GHz, 6MB cache cpu wil be enough to use gto+ rapidly? Can you share the specs you have on the pc you do the tutorials on?

Given that dEV will not be 0% for these trees, the strategies are not yet at a true equilibrium. As a result, this will also apply to the EV. Given that both trees will have an EV that is slightly off, it's not too surprising that one is higher than the other. Judging from the EV of ~50, I assume that the pot is about 100? That means that the error in the EV of 7 cents comes down to about a deviation of 0.07% of the pot, which is not unthinkable. If you want me to take a closer look, then please send a savefile to support. An alternative explanation is of course that the trees are slightly different, but I suspect that it's just due to variance.

1) Output in matrix form. The buttons below the matrix show the colors for the different actions. So Bet is blue, and Check is green. And for example AKs is about 25% bet and 75% check in the matrix

2) Output in hand type form. The output not only shows the distribution for the entire decision, but also a subdivision in actions. So for example a set should always be checked, while top pair is bet about half the time. For more details on a stat, mouse over it. The table (3) will adapt and show only the hands in that stat.

3) The list of hands that is currently being displayed. If you mouse over any item in either the matrix or the hand type output, then the table will update to only show the hands that are currently moused over. So if you mouse over AKs in the matrix it will show AhKh,AcKc,AdKd and AsKs. Similarly, if you mouse over "flushdraw" in the hand type output, only the flushdraw hands will be shown.

4) A summary of whatever is currently displayed in the table. So if you mouse over "flushdraw", it will tell you the distribution in combos, percent, equity and EV for that particular stat. In the left of 4) the pot,stack,etc data is displayed for the current decision.

5) Click on "Lock+edit decision to lock the range and switch to edit mode. In edit mode you will be able to alter a range as you see fit, after which it will be kept locked for when the solver is run again.

6) The table (3) is not big enough to display combo output, percentage output and EV output at once. For this reason, with these tabs you can toggle between the output modes.

7) Use these tabs to see either the entire decision, or one specific action.

The pc in the videos is i7, with 4 cores of 3.4gHz. Just to be sure, I'd aim just a bit higher than this i5-8250U Quad-Core (it will probably run fine though).

@Scylla But with turbo it goes upto 3.4GHz. Wont that that make a difference? I just need it to run most trees in less than 5 min, because my current pc takes upto 30min or more in scenarios where ranges are wide(BUvsBB srp).

So far I am liking GTO+ but with a few more upgrades I will LOVE it!

1)It would be great to have averages shown in bottom of all charts. ie from range distributions screen in database mode so we can have some way to compare aggregate EV and frequencies between different strategies.

2)Ability to easily import form flop subsets.

3) Ability to sort and search Database for flops - ie Inside database you can sort chart by equity/EV/bet/check but these doesn't seem to be a way to rank or sort by flop.

4) not sure if this is me or some random bug -from DB I select flop(it shows in the board box) > select bet/call line in top left > select turn report > inside turn distributions if I accidentally double click on list of turn card I get bounced to a completely different solve(different board)?

5)Ability to forces player to bet to check his range

I thought MDF was related to GTO. For example, if villain bets pot, I have to defend at least 50% (1/(1+1)) or villain can bet his entire range profitably. I understand that sometimes he will get a great flop so his range will crush mine, allowing him to bet his entire range which means I have to under defend.

Anyway, I just want that simple calculation, the 1/(1+1) part. I know it's pretty easy to do, but it would be nice to see the MDF immediately while I'm clicking through several bet and raise sizes so I can compare the MDF to what we're actually defending.

Maybe on the river is close to gto,or preflop.U can analyse a hand with GTO+ and u can do a math.It will be different for different boards.

Ok, I'll take it under consideration.

1) 3) Ok, we will consider this for future updates.
2) You can already export your list of flops to a file with "Export flops to file" and then import them with "Import flops from file" at a later point. See screenshot below.
4) I can not seem to reproduce this, but I'll keep my eyes open.
5) You can already do this. Either by editing+locking the player's range. Or by deleting the action you don't want with the editor. The editing+locking is described in video 1 and the tree editor is described in video 3: http://www.gtoplus.com/videos/

Thank you for the feedback,

Scylla

I would indeed expect it to work fine. Another computer of mine is i5, 4 cores, 2.7gHz, and the software runs at satisfactory speeds on that as well. As long as the computer is not more than ~5 years the software should work properly.

Scylla, perfect. Thank you!

Do you personally find the scatterplot chart useful in your analysis? It is very interesting - but does it help your decision making?

Second question, I assume the ranges selected are ranges that would reach the relevant street?

Lastly, the tool runs VERY fast on the turn and river. How can I speed up solving on the flop please? I am sure you have answered this somewhere but can't find it.

Awesome tool. Thanks.

@scylla:
I bought a new laptop. How can I transfer my licenses of GTO+, CREV and Flopzilla to the new one. The programs will just be used on the new laptop and not on the old one. Thanks!

The scatter plot is just one of the ways we offer to look at the data from all sorts of different angles. It's not necessarilly with a specific purpose in mind, but by being able to do this, there's a chance of running into something interesting in your data that would be undetected if these tools were not present.

Which ranges are you referring to here?

Solving the river will happen to a dev of 0%, often within just a fraction of a second. This is because the tree on the river is very small. Solving the turn will already be a bit more time-consuming, although typically it will also go to 0% within a few seconds. The reason why it takes more time is because every time the river is reached, the tree branches out into 48 different river runouts of the board. And every river needs to be solved here as well. So turn problems come down to having to solve the river several hundreds of times. Similarly, a flop tree branches out into 49 different turns (that all need to be solved). As a consequence, solving the flop is not something that is as straightforward as solving turns or rivers; it's several hundreds of times more complex, and therefore requires more time.

You can request new keys on the websites:

GTO+: http://www.gtoplus.com/request-a-key/
CREV: http://www.cardrunnersev.com/requestkey.html
Flopzilla: http://www.flopzilla.com/requestkey.html

The forms are automated, and your new keys will be sent to you within a few minutes of the request.

Hardware ID?
To get your hardware ID, start the relevant software and go to "register" in its menu.

Hi Scylla

Thanks. Re: the ranges, I mean "Range 1" and "Range 2" on the far left of the main screen, where one chooses from the AA to 22 matrix. I think my question was a bit silly though, as that has to be the preflop range, or more specifically the range which gets someone to the flop, whether in a 2 bet or 3bet or more preflop scenario. If one is examining the river in GTOPlus, those ranges on the far left are still the ranges which one gets to the flop with. Correct?

Regarding the speed of solving the flop, I fully understand the complexity of the tree and great job programming this. I guess I was wondering if there is an advanced tip or trick to speed up the flop solving somehow or reduce the filesize! (ha). I guess not.

Kind regards
Rod

Those will indeed be the ranges that the players start with.

Thanks Scylla.

Can you please point me two where the explanation is for the benefits of using basic, med or extensive file storage? Is there any reason to use extensive?

Thanks
Rod

Basic (recommended)
Only flop solutions are stored. This is however no disadvantage, given that turn data will automatically be recalculated on the fly when it's requested. This recalculation will rarely take more than a few seconds.

Medium
Turn reports will now also include data for individual hands, whereas "Basic" will only store data for the entire range.

Extensive
Turn data is now also stored, meaning that when navigating to a turn the data will be immediately loaded, as opposed to a few seconds of recalc time being needed.

Generally, "Medium" and "Extensive" are not really necessary. The recalc of the turn data happens really quickly. And data for individual hands in turn reports is not really necessary. So, in any practical use, you can just use the "Basic" setting without ever noticing a difference.