GTO GTO+/CardRunnersEV? - Page 144 - Poker Software -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I already sent you a mail on 28/11/2013, however it appears you have not received it. I have just sent you a mail again from both of the backup addresses. Please let me know if you haven't received them.

Quote

11-30-2013 , 02:38 PM

#3578

gargamel_fk

banned

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 803

Quote:

Originally Posted by scylla

Yeah got it but you sent me again request for hardware ID you need to generate the key. However I sent it to you on 27th or 28th (2nd license e-mail). Anyway I sent the machine code again. Let me know if you got the e-mail cause I got yours however it is just to send you machine code (hardware ID) and not the key itself.

Quote

11-30-2013 , 02:39 PM

#3579

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by gargamel_fk

I've just mailed you your key.
Please let me know if you haven't received it.

Quote

12-02-2013 , 05:32 AM

#3580

Ninja666

adept

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 784

Hey scylla, thanx for new version!!!

New composision tool is awesome!

Do yuou mind if I will write some comments and observations ?

1) The composition tool:
a) It is awesome, but it would be cool to be a little bit flexible with removal. So maybe just adding ability to right/left click on exact combo to increase or reduce combos of it would be cool? I mean if you dont want to go linear EV/equity wise.
b) Now after editing composion new filter is created and writter on old one. Wouldnt it be better to modify VERY SAME filter just by adding Holecards condition? If it flush draw with pair or overpair, this filter still will be valid with AND holecards statement.

Anyway composition tool is awesome!

2) In preflop there was suit selection like in current matrix. It disappeared. Is that intentionally?

3) "- Expanded definitions that allows trees to be treated as preflop"
Could you explain this ?

4) Variables (- All active variables now shown when running script)

While #2 variable is not used in tree itself, however it could be used for various variable calculations, like R, pot to stack ratio etc. It is great to have that and not to calculate yuourself. could you show all variables, even if you dont use those?

Did I say how awesome new composition tool is ?

Thnx.

Quote

12-02-2013 , 06:08 AM

#3581

Ninja666

adept

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 784

Is that Bug?

If there is All hands then I can use new tool, but if I add additional condition I can't anymore:

(flop, removing 4th pair+ allows to use Alt+ A)

Code:

[CardRunnersEV v2.9.2]
[This text block contains a savefile for CardRunnersEV]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into CardRunnersEV]
[www.cardrunnersev.com]
[_agPq_mEMjCeUB9n@HTB6L#@Xt+5mP9fcaNqF5#oUjcipwvKXp3&!1iqR91MK!zeEN8iiy]
[V=3h*(m$t29)Fc4=X7_kI*$zUM$29O2=8x*M+wzmFBFQaOD8R+N5at7oLuDBI$NV1fE07R]
[qo.kVDwo4ZkzhqLhghukISiQcsK4F4Chg#rCYMDyWUoPrIyL#yKu?LPsQLg4Nwab+n0p.B]
[Zo9B.GL#Nagf_T2.sDPVN1G&Qxa4#k4j7EXWuX0B.RQ6_H&JZ-eFEtOlJeiXYJ4-61tskQ]
[ph.Ca3YCOITKF!FX5STwRC_YW5bU5dIUgO3VOhQ#6Nka+?.JJ3L-WY_MAtCl!wXGeGcrhO]
[IYhQI!l7MX2+c!?7#RCWow&K-nkW37e+?_.FMgczLxOllz7-W1E5-K$IRMC.CkfLFrAT+K]
[6g0yh$1XK@ys&S$7$wYBswla25!2LmkxBcgFGvGqvKy6M@0MdAl.UNs11S3pGdv5L#cFx!]
[ZoC4TfRReRvXQW-+72@bzINybaRaFfktldtw&E&@@aDEUI2$h9t7?bNF1WG,P!y-C36f,n]
[JssqWJ2R$$26jtp7#r89WRw$ezUEtUMvV0trQe$N&.Qk&b+uiWYEzem-xVAiX2cPc&9vB5]
[AhWNlyX!6eHIseplRX#Hcul3yf_yKiG?ty2XsPDbtA+5Z@jxcU?gX$z20$S7hKLqgfyrPX]
[+uU@XJ?91vPE.zVL.cDL>=ir9&AdKJe&lzFzp$MMLVjc_AGAjen-F3geEairuhx-61Wn2k]
[E?Y2KTMzfEps_zv1AXdAMZm_0O?JSj?qIkrZrq1lQgGmYk?y$+.AGVJB$4dQhr?mIs+0AN]
[w&1Jggnk3?a&0Z?k5LAsX.bof!opxP&#_NImB36kYuKKdk!&gLCZ8fjXIZ]

Quote

12-02-2013 , 06:29 AM

#3582

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja666

Is that Bug?

If there is All hands then I can use new tool, but if I add additional condition I can't anymore:

(flop, removing 4th pair+ allows to use Alt+ A)

Code:

[CardRunnersEV v2.9.2]
[This text block contains a savefile for CardRunnersEV]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into CardRunnersEV]
[www.cardrunnersev.com]
[_agPq_mEMjCeUB9n@HTB6L#@Xt+5mP9fcaNqF5#oUjcipwvKXp3&!1iqR91MK!zeEN8iiy]
[V=3h*(m$t29)Fc4=X7_kI*$zUM$29O2=8x*M+wzmFBFQaOD8R+N5at7oLuDBI$NV1fE07R]
[qo.kVDwo4ZkzhqLhghukISiQcsK4F4Chg#rCYMDyWUoPrIyL#yKu?LPsQLg4Nwab+n0p.B]
[Zo9B.GL#Nagf_T2.sDPVN1G&Qxa4#k4j7EXWuX0B.RQ6_H&JZ-eFEtOlJeiXYJ4-61tskQ]
[ph.Ca3YCOITKF!FX5STwRC_YW5bU5dIUgO3VOhQ#6Nka+?.JJ3L-WY_MAtCl!wXGeGcrhO]
[IYhQI!l7MX2+c!?7#RCWow&K-nkW37e+?_.FMgczLxOllz7-W1E5-K$IRMC.CkfLFrAT+K]
[6g0yh$1XK@ys&S$7$wYBswla25!2LmkxBcgFGvGqvKy6M@0MdAl.UNs11S3pGdv5L#cFx!]
[ZoC4TfRReRvXQW-+72@bzINybaRaFfktldtw&E&@@aDEUI2$h9t7?bNF1WG,P!y-C36f,n]
[JssqWJ2R$$26jtp7#r89WRw$ezUEtUMvV0trQe$N&.Qk&b+uiWYEzem-xVAiX2cPc&9vB5]
[AhWNlyX!6eHIseplRX#Hcul3yf_yKiG?ty2XsPDbtA+5Z@jxcU?gX$z20$S7hKLqgfyrPX]
[+uU@XJ?91vPE.zVL.cDL>=ir9&AdKJe&lzFzp$MMLVjc_AGAjen-F3geEairuhx-61Wn2k]
[E?Y2KTMzfEps_zv1AXdAMZm_0O?JSj?qIkrZrq1lQgGmYk?y$+.AGVJB$4dQhr?mIs+0AN]
[w&1Jggnk3?a&0Z?k5LAsX.bof!opxP&#_NImB36kYuKKdk!&gLCZ8fjXIZ]

The new tool requires knowing the exact EV for every combo in a player's range. This again requires the math engine to work. If your postflop action are exclusively for "all hands", then the math engine can be applied. However, once you use a condition that requires knowing the board, then the software has to toggle to the monte carlo engine and the required data is no longer available.

Quote

12-02-2013 , 06:44 AM

#3583

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja666

For that, go to the postflop menu, go to the holecards section and click on the range editor. If EV data is present in your tree then the button "Get selection from tree" should be available, which should bring up the composition tool. You can import your selection from this tool into the editor and then edit the hands there. The composition tool itself is mostly just intended to get an idea of how a range is made up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja666

b) Now after editing composion new filter is created and writter on old one. Wouldnt it be better to modify VERY SAME filter just by adding Holecards condition? If it flush draw with pair or overpair, this filter still will be valid with AND holecards statement.

Again, for that, just go to the tool from the postflop condition editor. I just decided to add an Alt+A toggle as well in case people wanted a quicker way of getting to the tool if they just wanted to look at a range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja666

2) In preflop there was suit selection like in current matrix. It disappeared. Is that intentionally?

Suit selection is available if you start a tree postflop. If you start preflop then it's left out, given that selecting for suits before the flop makes no practical sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja666

3) "- Expanded definitions that allows trees to be treated as preflop"
Could you explain this ?

Yeah, I was just trying to keep the description down to a single line.

If there's action on an unknown flop, then the software has to toggle to the monte carlo engine. An exception to this, until now, was if all actions were for "all hands", given that the board doesn't need to be known in order to determine if that condition is TRUE or FALSE.

However, this álso applies to some other conditions, namely everything under the "Holecards" section of the postflop menu. After all, if you only make requiresments for the holecards, then the board is irrelevant. So for example, if all of your postflop conditions (on an unknown board) are things like "all hands must be suited", "AA-22,AK-AT", "all hands must be pockets", etc, then again, the software will be able to stick with the math engine instead of toggling to the monte carlo engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja666

4) Variables (- All active variables now shown when running script)

There's no way of telling which variables are relevant there. I prefer to stick with just the variables that are actually used. Sorry.

Quote

12-02-2013 , 06:57 AM

#3584

Ninja666

adept

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 784

Quote:

Originally Posted by scylla

Oh, that is actually pretty cool, because exactly this is what I was working lately on, and caused problems, forced to look for wark arrounds and try ti finish tree at preflop, when I wanted to give increased EV for Suited connectors.

Thnx.

Quote

12-02-2013 , 07:30 AM

#3585

HredunoS

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 106

Ninja - you could track variable by adding it to your tree in irrelevant place (fe. bet size for non-existing range).

Quote

12-02-2013 , 07:44 AM

#3586

Ninja666

adept

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 784

Quote:

Originally Posted by HredunoS

Ninja - you could track variable by adding it to your tree in irrelevant place (fe. bet size for non-existing range).

Thnx! That is great suggestion!

Quote

12-04-2013 , 04:48 PM

#3587

d7o1d1s0

Coach NLHE

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,463

Hi there,

I feel like I've asked this before but can't find the post. I'm trying to use a equity distribution visualiser alongside CREV. Is there a way to export ranges from postflop popups so that I can input that range into another program?

Thanks

Quote

12-04-2013 , 06:18 PM

#3588

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by d7o1d1s0

There's 2 ways of accomplishing this.
For both you'll need to mouse over the decision/action/condition you're interested in.

Method 1: Alt+O
Press Alt+O for a dialog with the contents of the popup.
In its first lines is the current range in the form of a string.

Method 2: Range composition tool -> Alt+A
Press Alt+A for the range composition tool.
Press the "Text output" button for the currently selected range (you can use the slider to select a top/bottom% if you so wish).

Visualize equity distribution?
Just in case you're interested, the range composition tool itself might be of interest to you if you're looking for how a range is composed in terms of EV/equity/tie%.

In the table on the right you can select what you want to base the ranking for the slider on (EV/equity/tie).

Also, there's a graph output available. It will graph Nr/EV/Equity/Tie vs Nr/EV/Equity/Tie. For that, press the "Show selection as graph" button.

Quote

12-04-2013 , 06:59 PM

#3589

gazavat

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 299

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Child

Scylla,

Great new update!

The tool that he references allows to match the equity distributions of 2 ranges on a single graph for a particular street. I believe this is not possible by the newly added postflop composition graphing tool.

Here are some suggestions in relation to that:

1 Add a percentege option for X and Y axis in addition to the current Nr of combos option.

2 Add ability to visually compare/overlay two ranges on the composition graph for a particular street/situation

3 Add the postflop composition tool graphing option to preflop parts of the tree.

I can further explain why I think these are useful if needed.

Quote

12-04-2013 , 07:08 PM

#3590

gazavat

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 299

Is there a place where I can see how much rake was taken away at certain branches of the tree? Right now i check settings for rake%, rakeback and cap and have to calculate manually based on how big pot is at certain part of the tree. This process is pretty annoying and time consuming.

Could you add this info?

I would guess this info would be most appropriate to display here:

or in the popup here:

Quote

12-05-2013 , 05:55 AM

#3591

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazavat

or in the popup here:

Just make a random run through that branch of the tree with F6. The message dialog will show the rake. To force a trial run through a particular branch of a tree, put a checkpoint on it (F10).

Quote

12-05-2013 , 11:36 AM

#3592

gazavat

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 299

Quote:

Originally Posted by scylla

Just make a random run through that branch of the tree with F6. The message dialog will show the rake. To force a trial run through a particular branch of a tree, put a checkpoint on it (F10).

Thanks scylla, that works and is a decent workaround.

Btw did you check my previous post with suggestions for new graphing tool?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=3589

Does it need clarifications?

Quote

12-06-2013 , 07:50 AM

#3593

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazavat

Yes, I read them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazavat

1 Add a percentege option for X and Y axis in addition to the current Nr of combos option.

I considered that, but it requires quite a bit of work (it gets tricky if weights are applied) and I felt it didn't add enough to justify the programming effort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazavat

2 Add ability to visually compare/overlay two ranges on the composition graph for a particular street/situation

I'll look into it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazavat

3 Add the postflop composition tool graphing option to preflop parts of the tree.

I haven't had time for that yet, but was planning to do so.

Quote

12-06-2013 , 09:17 AM

#3594

ron1n

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 193

Hi scylla,

I want to define the following range postflop:

exactly
+ highcard
+ both holecards between 2 and Q
+ no flushdraw using both holecards
+ no 8 outs straightdraw using both holecards

Obv the first two are easy but I have problems with the bolded conditions, I dont know (if its even possible) how to exclude those strong draws from my range ... So basically i want a range of no more then Qhi which contains pure air and the "weak" draws only (1card and gutshots).
Can you help?

Quote

12-06-2013 , 09:20 AM

#3595

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by ron1n

There's several ways you could do that.
The easiest way would be to use the "No flushdraw" and "No straight draw" conditions.
However, given that you dó want to include gutshots, you'll need two conditions:
- Highcard+[2,Q]+no flushdraw+no straightdraw
- Highcard+[2,Q]+no flushdraw+gutshot

See this savefile for an example:
Import with Ctrl+I.

Code:

[CardRunnersEV v2.9.2]
[This text block contains a savefile for CardRunnersEV]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into CardRunnersEV]
[www.cardrunnersev.com]
[44PMinwuBo1#WvIP_&&qv-2a.0+dEovI2RnMjw_rs@bK1z@ef3JrTE1.V$h4ZwUEOSyTQb]
[C=+&*(rVZxL)G_q=#f0MT*1b9xNy@3w=gA*N5G6oz&sM.AyeWNfEO_HGl_JVkpr47pDN7y]
[puh3_HAGBWXjNql?2R6@i77cSHhn0UtmAjACpXbMts.TfBE8YXMqXG_AB2brE&-m?qOLv1]
[iNwd05xU&9.X8mxjqY3L+uBU5w6j-xX_6@NWCH+OBcU7RK!733xwO6A!mS62Yj0UCSfSwc]
[Fv9ZzjEfDmyvutX_9Oy@SO6RrEgPLuxPnh6TRvnv!tLqOuPVQS7TiziCJwoNtIC?D4PdCV]
[sf0O!Bd9#I11uE04eVqbeQbMM$FP6x$ZG-1Vs1IlpEOz5$mwzP?F$9Doz$zvd2sjSmd-Ud]
[VuGW0ajjaBL4xqBNcG.O4Gbi5_wqNg77TezuO@TPLIjp@15_eKtpAsF5!9XBe+-GGfu@RP]
[&xb71x!RqQD9ofHsAVZjO0X9IRg5gsFN!yt0!N!T9+uKjL2PxYcpdHah5_PFN412QpocYJ]
[W42boFHtMRB$H1l#dQ&nY.+KPDSDIo&WvlwuEA&C2.$#tr#p?Q2GVYPLPkz.&J3Jmp0!J6]
[nGTDB@fnZ6fq5k-d3Q5DoKI?SJl3yD!9inrzdOUqCN1r2hnor&juAQ9YMkP-lG6PbloN@o]
[mW.:TCPeu(8P9_HQN1X7&I-uH7lJm*)ca?Il7wIaGxxCap00?W5J_L$Fh&A?FoT+mLvO0o]
[C#06l3F1nwO:W!f2+(vvjrmPIu&I23&GvCb2v)e!1T!$SQ5KjcmJH+n_!q7dGqkcOzpq8Y]
[$x5wn.9N&HsQbu?8N7k2wkzB33T0gOlsMKPLcA5jKjdsBoS5MLWiF?xAMoHcIV$WJOd8a8]
[!DIYUE4eXorwWmfYDEo3zIS_xLYdc&tO9Bew#AgNV4Ov4-x?@y7rNi9YX.YTiTQTOCQvvV]
[4MkZ5IjI&CIWmhTtFu6r0UueFbRWea4AkXjPA]

Last edited by scylla; 12-06-2013 at 09:26 AM.

Quote

12-09-2013 , 11:45 AM

#3596

PokerRon247

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 11,192

I've been watching all the instructional vids on YouTube and have just watched the "Equilibrium in a 4bet Tree" one.

I copied the tree and script off the video to try it for myself and I'm getting quite different results. You get the optimal range for SB to be opening 70% and shoving 50% of that range for an EV of 2.18. I get the optimal range to be way tighter than that (around the 15% open/shove 100% area) for an EV of ~5.

Any idea why I could be so far off your numbers?

Edit: Nevermind I just worked out that I hadn't put a fold condition on SB's first decision. However I don't understand why this would make any difference. If for example SB opens the top 15% of hands, and you don't have a fold condition, doesn't he just fold the rest anyway given that it's his first decision?

Quote

12-09-2013 , 06:02 PM

#3597

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerRon247

A player's range is determined in his first preflop decision.
Whatever hands a player uses for his actions in his first decision will decide what his range will be.

So when SB just raises with the top 15%, thát will be SB's entire preflop range.

If SB raises with the top 15% and folds all hands, then SB's range will be "all hands" (because now áll of his hands are used).

If it were to work that all non-present hands would be considered as folds, you'd get strange spots. For example, let's say you have a hand where SB holds AsKs. Automatically assuming that SB would just fold all other hands here would not be practical. AsKs is simply the hand we want to look at for this tree.

In the end, the software simply does what you tell it to do. You've told it to open-raise the top 15%. You haven't said anything about any other hands; for that reason they are not treated.

Last edited by scylla; 12-09-2013 at 06:11 PM.

Quote

12-11-2013 , 05:15 AM

#3598

ron1n

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 193

Hi scylla,

I really really want you to add a new set of conditions that allow us to select "at least flop tp"; "at least middle flop pair" and "at least 3rd flop pair", because right now, on unknown turn and river cards, lets say the "at least tp" condition is altered by overcards and its kinda useless in general for calling ranges since most overcards are good cards for vilain to keep bluffing on so, vs a 3rd barrel, we should still be calling with most our flop top pairs.

Last edited by ron1n; 12-11-2013 at 05:23 AM.