Thanks for good words on this program.

Re. Windows, I do think there are already some very good programs there in this space so it's not a trivially easy platform/space to enter. But I think PokerCruncher would have a good shot. I wish I could magically translate the current Mac-Expert version to native-Windows code and UI!

>>> its function is the combination of multiple PC similar softwares

Thanks for appreciating PokerCruncher's features. I think I know what you mean here - some programs on Windows do detailed flop texture analysis with many stats, but only let you enter 1 range in their main program (so we can't do range vs. range detailed analysis). Some other programs do range vs. range and handle multiple ranges, but may not have detailed flop texture analysis / stats. Whereas PokerCruncher's goal was to be as general as possible and combine these two aspects i.e. we can enter multiple ranges up to 10, and do flop texture analysis with many stats, all in one integrated program. Ok I've tooted PokerCruncher's horn enough so I'll stop ...

Loving this program so far. I am using the iPad version. One question I have came up with, is there anyway to add a “middle x” range to my villains range? I see the “Top X and Bottom X” but cannot seem to find a way to add the middle of villains range.

Thanks for good feedback.
There's no direct way to add "Middle X%", but it's doable pretty easily in the app: for example, first add Top66%. Then select Top33% with the slider, and tap the "Remove" button. We're then left with the middle 33% of hands. You can adjust the 66% and 33% endpoints to select any desired middle range.

Also thanks for noticing the Bottom X% feature. One use of this is to model garbage hands that have folded out of the hand (for full accuracy on everyone's holdings/ranges). For example if a good LAG folds on the button or cutoff (with everyone having folded to him), we know he pretty much had garbage and we can assign him a suitable BottomX% range. The only players left in the hand may be just the blinds battling it out (Hero and Villain, and we can assign ranges to them), but the ranges of the players that have folded out of the hand also give us some card/range info. that can affect the ranges of the players left in the hand.

Usually we only enter Hero's and Villain's cards/ranges in a scenario/setup in this kind of program, but actually we have range info. on all of the players at the table even though most may have already folded out of the hand preflop.

I can’t believe I didn’t notice that. Thank you for the response! That is a super easy way to add middle x% and I have begun using it. Thanks for the great app.

Will there be a PokerCruncher for Windows 10, that can be loaded to my home computer:

No plans for this. See post #549 in this thread for more info.

Some comments and questions...

1) Q: Is there anything in the MAC desktop version that is not available in the IOS versions?
2) Q: Why in the hell is there not a trial mode?
3) C: http://www.pokercruncher.com/ looks like it was developed by a 12yr old... in 2005
4) C: Add a page that lists out all recent versions and update notes so people can gauge how active the project is

Yes, a lot. The Mac version is the "Expert" version, the iOS versions are "Advanced". The apps are labelled as such right in their names. And the apps' descriptions in the app stores explain this. And our website's tutorial page has a section listing all of the extra Mac-expert-level features:

http://www.pokercruncher.com/ipPoker..****evelFeatures

This means you haven't looked at these apps/versions closely at all.

The iPhone-Advanced version does have a free/limited-features version to give you a feel for the app. The Mac-Expert version does not, one reason being the restrictions put on free/trial versions by the MacAppStore. I'd explain further, but honestly your tone/word-choices is a turnoff. There are places and times for 4-letter h and f words and I'm all for venting every now and then in the right settings/times, but I don't think this discussion thread is one of those places. Suggestion: show some more class. Then again, looking at your username on this site, I'm not sure if that can happen.

Actually that's not far from how old I was then (just kidding, is not even close). Some people like the minimal/clean/simple look of the website. With fancier websites you get longer download times, cookies installed on your machine, etc. But your suggestion is a good one I think, I will think about updating the website's look and feel. I did think about doing this over the years, but instead worked on improving the apps themselves thru many updates over the years.

This is already there on our website, since day 1 for many years, for each of our apps/versions:

http://www.pokercruncher.com/ipVersi...seHistory.html

You don't even need to go to our website to see this info. In the Apple app stores, on every app's description page, they have a "Version History" link so Apple keeps track of this themselves.

Again shows you haven't looked too closely at any of this, or don't have good attention to detail.

Good luck.

Correct. I didn't look into that much but as a potential customer I should not have to. It should be in plain sight for the laziest of people (me). We like to see stupid little breakdowns of what product features one has over the other. Just simple suggestions to help your sales.

I did not intend to give you any "tone". This was just my initial feedback and I figured its best not to sugar coat and give you my honest opinion.

Cheers

It *is* in plain sight for 99%+ of people. The apps say "Advanced" vs. "Expert" right in their app names, in their app icons, in their app store descriptions, on our website, on our tutorial webpage, everywhere. In the app store, the Mac-Expert version, right at the top says "The *Expert* version of PokerCruncher". You just didn't really look/read, and/or don't have good attention to detail imo.

You used wording like "why in the hell", "12yr old", so fast and easily, and you don't think you were giving off any kind of tone? You need a reality check Mr. FishFarts.

Downloaded today. I like what I see so far but I have some quick questions

- Is there anyway to increase the font and/or the size of the explorer?
- Is there a way to make the combo selection a little more fluid in the range explorer? When holding down the mouse and selecting a grouping of hand combinations it only selects vertically, horizontally or diagonally.

Thanks!

I take it you're referring to the Mac-Expert version? (from your reference to "mouse" in your second question) The Mac-Expert version has its own separate thread but no problem we can discuss here.

By the "explorer" I take it you mean the 13x13 range grid on the RHS?
No, its size is fixed and so is its text size. If we turn on ViewHandComboCounts or ViewWeights settings, the grid cells need to show additional text for the combo-count or weight in each cell, so the text size can't be too large. And I wanted to have a consistent/same text size regardless of these settings. The text size is about the same as the many other things in the UI e.g. the stats, so if the range grid isn't readable to you, the entire app may not be (I hope not).


"vertically, horizontally or diagonally" -
But these are the three main directions so should be enough! For example these directions let us select e.g. A2s+, A2o+, and pocket pairs down the main diagonal, and suited connectors on a diagonal and even 1 and 2 gappers. We usually construct a range in pieces, horizontal and vertical and diagonal hands pieces.

But yes you can get more fluid selection: multi-selection: instead of holding down just the SHIFT key, hold down SHIFT+CMD and then click/drag with the mouse. This is listed in the tooltip of the small "SHIFT+click/drag=Select.." label and in the range editor's Help screen and in the Keyboard Shortcuts help screen, but I know small fine print like this is hard to see/notice in a complex UI. Then after you've multi-selected the cells you want, click Add or Remove or whatever action you want to take on the cells.

Yo, just want to double check something. For use on the iPad Mini, do you recommend the iPad version? Or the iPhone version? Mostly want to make sure the fonts are visible and controls are useable.

I have an iPad Mini myself and everything is readable and tap-able on it (using the iPad-specific version of this app). The 13x13 range grid's cells are pretty small especially on an iPad Mini, but I can still tap or swipe across exactly the cells I want, even with my thumb. Of course my thumb is way bigger than the cells, but it looks like our fingers develop a "center of gravity" feel for tapping/touching after tapping on stuff enough times on these devices. So everyone's fingers should be able to tap pretty accurately on anything in the app. So I think you'd be fine with the iPad version.

However, if you don't have any iOS version of this app yet, and you have both an iPhone and an iPad (or intend to in the future), then the iPhone version may be better to buy first, because you can run it on both iPhone and iPad. You'll get the same small iPhone layout window when running it on an iPad, but you can use the "2x" button to scale up the window (I don't really find a need to do this). So the iPhone version gives more flexibility.

Then later if you also want the iPad version for the full iPad large screen layout experience, you can decide if you want to buy that version later. All of the PokerCruncher versions (incl. also the Android and Mac-Expert versions) are one-time initial purchase fee only (no further in-app purchases or continuing fees or such pricing tricks), to hopefully make buying multiple versions no problem over time.

Thanks RJ! Really appreciate the fast response.

Is there a way to find out the % of flops a specific hand does not hit at least one of the following?
Top Pair +
2 Card Straight Draw
Flush Draw
Pair plus 1 card straight draw
Pair plus backdoor flush draw
2 overcards plus 1 card straight draw
2 overcards plus backdoor flush draw

Not in the iOS/Android (Advanced) versions of this app, but the Mac-Expert version of PokerCruncher can do the gist of what you're saying.

In the "Advanced" versions of this app there's no feature to sum-up or combine several stats together (taking overlapping of stats into account of course), but the Mac-Expert version has a user-definable stat called "Total Hit" that does this. In the Stats view you turn ON the checkmarks of the stats that you want to include in TotalHit, and then calculate. In your example you wanted to know "does not hit", not "does hit", so then we just subtract the TotalHit stat's %age from 100%.

I've attached a screenshot below showing the TotalHit stat at work (it's at the bottom of the Stats view, middle section of the window). In this example made hands TwoPair+ are included in TotalHit, and a few draws.
EDIT: Added a second screenshot, TotalHit for a specific hand, on blank board cards, going to the Turn.

Note, some of your combination stats are very specific and PokerCruncher (any version of the app) doesn't have stats that match some of your stats exactly. For example the Mac-Expert version has a stat "2-Card Backdoor Flush Draw", but not your combination stat "Pair plus backdoor flush draw". The app does have 4 "Pair & ..." combination stats, just not the specific combination you used. I don't think I want to add more combinations as we're running out of space, and I think with the current set of stats we can get just about any meaning we want if we put them together in a good way. And also I'm not sure if a stat for specifically a 1-card straight draw adds a lot of value, because the regular straight-draw stat includes both 1-card and 2-card straight draws and may be all we need.

Wow, thank you so much for the quick and comprehensive reply! +10 for customer service.
My interest for specifically these stats is that I’m building more linear ranges for live low stakes poker and I’m trying to create hand rankings based on general Flop Playability.
So for example if a hand makes top pair+, oesd, or flush draw, I’m probably continuing to the turn in some capacity. I’m more interested in the nuances of what’s left over and how i can add them to my continuing range.
I can’t continue with all my high cards, weak draws, and weak pairs so i assume the ability to customize statistics for overcards plus, non-top pair plus, gut shots plus, and back door flush plus would be much more useful than total pair plus stats. I understand that space is limited so I don’t see the need for multiple entries for different variations of straight draws, when strategically they are all essential 1 or 2 card straight draws.
Maybe a suggestion for your filters in the future is rather than on/off check marks, have on (x), plus (+), or minus (-) options to make the stats more customizable.
I’m sure there are good reasons why you chose these specific stats and as I get more advanced hopefully I will have a Eureka moment where these stats will come more into play with my study.
Anyway, thanks again for the reply. I love using your product and appreciate the support.

Thanks for explaining your usage scenario.

>>> Maybe a suggestion for your filters in the future is rather than on/off check marks, have on (x), plus (+), or minus (-) options to make the stats more customizable.

Good suggestion, in the near future I will add a new 3rd "-" state to the stats' checkboxes, meaning delete the stat from the TotalHit / filter operation.

>>> I’m sure there are good reasons why you chose these specific stats

The current set of several dozen stats are the most common stats and combination stats that people would be interested in, and most poker software in this space e.g. on Windows as well has pretty much this set of stats. Your "-" state suggestion above will give more flexibility on top of this set of stats. For example currently there's the stat "Pair & Flush Draw". If we turn ON this stat, and then put a "-" on the TopPair and OverPair stats, that should give a weak OnePair combination stat when we look at TotalHit.

Thanks for suggesting.

You're the man, thanks for the reply so late. I also noticed that the %'s don't overlap which is awesome. I ran the simulation on the hit hand stats for all the individual starting hands with the check boxes 2 pair or better, flush draw, 2 card straight draws, top pair, overpair, pair plus gut shot, and the results were fascinating...
AKo is ranked 35th in my 'most likely continuing past flop playability' at 34.4%.
Here are the results in order for all hands with at least 29% top pair or better, pair plus weak draw, oesd, or flush draw. Its kind of solidified my thinking that I should just go back to a linear range in my 2/5 full ring cash games.
Just wanted to show you your efforts today weren't wasted! Have a great night man.

AA 100
KK 83.5
QQ 70.2
JJ 59.8
TT 51.8
99 45.2
AKS 42.8
AQS 41.4
KQS 41.4
QJS 40.7
88 40.4
JTS 40.4
KJS 40.2
AJS 39.8
QTS 39.7
KTS 38.8
ATS 38.1
77 37.2
T9S 37.1
J9S 36.1
A9S 35.4
66 35.3
55 35.3
Q9S 35
AKO 34.4
44 34.3
A8S 34.3
K9S 34.1
98S 34.1
T8S 33.5
33 33.3
KQO 33.2
AQO 33.1
A7S 33
JTO 32.8
QJO 32.7
22 32.4
J8S 32.1
KJO 32
K8S 31.9
QTO 31.9
A6S 31.8
87S 31.6
AJO 31.4
A5S 31.2
K7S 30.9
Q8S 30.9
A4S 30.8
97S 30.8
KTO 30.6
A3S 30.5
A2S 29.9
ATO 29.7
K6S 29.6
76S 29.6
T9O 29.3

^

(it's not so late here, west coast USA)

Good/interesting work FreeportMainePoker!

Some fyi's and impressions (but note, take this with a grain of salt because I'm not a full poker pro, mainly a 2/5 and 1/3 NL weekend grinder the past 10+ years, but profitable every year, and I did play 1000+ hours many of those years):

1) Looks like you have the Mac-Expert version of this app, so you've probably noticed the "Ranking" selector which has 8 well-known hand rankings. But your ordering is different in that it's a flop-playability ordering so is a good new ordering to look at, whereas these 8 are mainly hot-cold equity going to the river. Tutorial section: https://www.pokercruncher.com/ipPoke...RankingSystems

2) You had mentioned your playability ordering is for 2/5 NL cash games, or even 1/3. A note here is that these low limit cash games are usually shallow effective stacks, so flop playability (ability to flop/turn draws) won't be as important as hot-cold equity. Because stacks are often in by the flop or turn if both players pick up something, so you can't use your ability to flop and turn draws and combination hands to bet people off their hand as often. I think your playability ordering would be most useful in deep effective stack games, and/or maybe at higher limits.

3) Occam's Razor - The 8 well-known orderings mentioned above have one thing in common - they are all defined by very basic rules, e.g. "PokerStove - preflop all-in equity vs. 3 random hands". So I think that for your playability ordering, I'd make your stats/rules simpler: for made hands I'd go with what you have: TwoPair+, TopPair, OverPair. But I'd simplify the draws side: just FlushDraw, OpenEndStraightDraw, DoubleGutStraightDraw, and that's it!

That is, I wouldn't go crazy detailed with what stats I include, and wouldn't even consider the combination stats. Not just for Occam Razor simplicity principles, but because the hands that will flop e.g. a BackdoorFlushDraw best are prob. the same ones that will flop a regular FlushDraw best. Same for the combination stats. So there may not be much additional value in including more detailed stats. I think the ordering with this super-simple set of stats would work out well because e.g. T9s would still clearly be ranked above 65s because T9s will flop TopPair more often, and wouldn't be counterfeited as often.

4) A final/complete ordering should prob. have both playability characteristics as you're investigating, and hot/cold equity characteristics, say a weighted average of these. Because in the end / final ranking we definitely want AKo to move up quite a bit.

Just some 2c, take with grain of salt!
Interesting work by you.
-RJ

Just an fyi this good suggestion has now been implemented in the Mac-Expert version, V.12.7.1. A screenshot showing a simple example is below, where we add the (hit) OnePair stat, and then subtract off the OverPair and TopPair stats, leaving just the marginal OnePair's. We do this by doing a SHIFT+click on a stat's checkbox button to put a "-" on the stat.

This is in V.12.7.1, Mac-Expert version, released a few days ago. Something weird though - I'm seeing this app update being rolled out differently than usual in the Mac App Store. In the past for every app update I saw thousands of user-app-updates happening from day 1 that the update was released. But for this update I'm seeing only hundreds (and barely), so this update isn't hitting everyone nearly as fast in the Mac App Store. I think it may have to do with the latest macOS Catalina 10.15. On my Mac on Catalina I'm not seeing the Mac App Store automatically showing available app updates as it did in the past. I'm having to look at my purchased apps myself and see if any of them have an "Update" button on them. Hopefully this is just a temporary glitch that will go away.

This may be a very basic question for the software compared to some of the discussion I see in this thread. And it may have already been answered (my apologies for being lazy and not reading 22 pages of this thread). But is there a function on the app that you can get it to display the number of outs that the hand behind has for turn and river scenarios? In other words, rather than just outputting a percentage of say 29.5%, can you get the app to say that hand 2 has 13 outs?

Hello,
No; the PokerCruncher app doesn't display number of outs, only equity and stats values. One reason is, number of outs is definitely a very good learning method and is a good way to approximate equity and stats values, but using just number of outs doesn't give exact equity and stats values. For example, there are often backdoor draws in addition to the main draw. And sometimes the outs you're counting aren't "clean" e.g. if a flush draw is up against top pair, the flush outs are very clean, but if the flush draw is up against a set, the flush outs aren't clean because the set has good counter-outs (to boat up). Since PokerCruncher is a calculator, I felt having only exact methods in the app would be best.

However, as you brought up, number of outs is a good learning/approximating method, and some of the other PokerCruncher-family apps e.g. Poker Odds Teacher and Hold'em Odds Quizzer focus heavily on number of outs as a teaching method. E.g. the OddsTeacher app asks you to count the number of outs (on flop, turn, and even preflop), and use that and things like the Rule of 4 & 2, to build your estimate for the equity value.

These 3 apps (PokerCruncher, OddsTeacher, OddsQuizzer) are meant to complement each other, with the PokerCruncher app focused mainly on pure calculations not outs counting/estimating.

Awesome - thanks for the quick response! Thought there might be a quick setting I was missing. Mainly was looking for quick river outs in hand vs hand. But will look at those other apps you mentioned.