Where can I find Poker Cruncher Omaha app for iphone?

It's a good idea; I might make this app someday. Haven't so far because Omaha has a fraction of the audience of Hold'em.

Just got my first Iphone

And will be DL this as my first APP :-)

Also think i may get the Tourny Crunsher and quiz program while I am at it.

Any other suggestions about wich poker aps are good to get ?

this is only KINDA correct. you can make one puchase and use the iphone version on iphone and ipad. OR you can purchase both the iphone & ipad version (which has a few additional features) and then you have both versions at your fingertips. the price of these apps is really negligable. i purchased both versions and its well worth the money. i mean if you are serious about using these apps and serious about poker, you are probably able to play at least 1/3 or 2/5 live poker...so what if you have to invest 1-2 bb's total for such a great tool? just chalk it up & drop a few bucks

i know you are the author, im really responding to the other guy that you previously responded to

download Kindle, then download Phil Hellmuth's "Read'em and Reap", then follow all his advice and play at my table

I would like to suggest two things:
1- After entering your cards, the "cursor" goes to the first card of the next player. I would suggest that it goes to the first card of the board instead.

2- To fold/unfold a player, you have to tap the player, go to menu and choose fold/unfold player. I would suggest, to make it faster, that a tap on the player statistics (where the word "fold" appears when you fold him) could fold/unfold him.

Re. 1 - I don't like this suggestion. I think normal usage is, you enter your hand (Player1), then enter the villain's hand or range (Player2), then enter more villains if any, then enter board cards if any. I don't see why we would want to skip the villain(s) and go straight to the board cards. Also this would break the logical top down sequential flow of the fields (tab-order in the Mac version of this app). Why do you think skipping all villains and going straight to the board is a better flow?

Re. 2 - I like this goal, to have a faster way to fold/unfold players. There's a discoverability issue with tapping on the Equity stat to fold/unfold, so the menu command for this must still be there, no problem. But what might be a problem is that the UI elements are pretty small and tightly packed especially in the iPhone version, so it may not be easy to tap on most of the players' Equity stats without accidently tapping on other buttons. E.g. players 5..10's Equity stats have buttons inbetween them vertically (the Stats, HMap, n:1, Rnd, Menu buttons), so you'd need very accurate taps on these players' Equity stats.

So in summary, I'm a 'no' on (1), and I'm considering (2) but I don't think I'm over the 50% decision line yet. In any case, thanks for buying the app and sending suggestions, appreciate it.

Also, another app update will be coming soon within a month: improved card graphics: retina cards, it's way about time right : ).

Let me explain why the 1st suggestion:
I work with scenarios, so I don't have to enter vilain's hands all the time. And that's why I would love to have it directly to the board. Maybe there could be an option where you could set it for wherever you want.
Regarding my 2nd suggestion: I use Ipad, so in MY case, there would be no problem. I see it could be a problem for iphone users, but again: it could be an option in the menu.

If you allow me, I would like to suggest another 2 things:
3- I think it would be a nice idea if we could chose to have less iterations in the simulation, because its output in the beginning of the simulation is already very accurate. So we would have two options: a) Full simulation for those who love 100% accuracy and maybe 10% or 20% simulation for those who need it quick, without having to tap cancel.
4- Since I usually play in a 6-seat room, I have the space for players 7,8,9 and 10 always free, so I think it would be nice to have some "custom" buttons there, like "Load scenario 1" or "Reset All" or whatever people can choose to put there.
Look, I'm not criticizing at all!!!! Hope you take it as, at least, valid suggestions

I think it's worth saying that, despite my suggestions, I LOVE Poker Cruncher and it's my choice of odds calculator!

5feira,
Thanks for good words on the app.
Yes your suggestions are valid. If I say I'm not convinced yet on a suggestion, it doesn't mean it isn't a good idea, just that I'm not sold on it yet. Not to worry, in this thread's long history there have been a few suggestions that took me a few days to come around on, and then I wound up implementing them, or something close to the original idea (e.g. save/load scenarios). Thanks for your ideas.

Re. 3 (less iterations in the simulation) -
There's already a setting in the main menu called "Number of Sim Trials". You can set this to "1/2 x Default" to cut the number of simulations in half. I hesitate to have a "1/4" or lower because I want the results to be pretty accurate. "1/2" completes in 1.5 sec on the latest device, with 2 players with one having a hand range; is this fast enough? Note that there's also an "Infinite" setting.

Re. 2 (tap player's Equity stat to fold/unfold him) -
I like the iPad / iPhone distinction. Decision: will implement this in the iPad version, but not in the iPhone version (no menu setting either). On iPhone the elements are just too close together. I don't mind if the iPad version has a few extra features like this; iPad is a bigger device so more things should be possible on it.

Re. 1 (focus order after Player1's fields) -
I'm still not sold yet on this one, even on the menu setting. All you have to do is tap on the board's first card which takes half a second. I don't want to clutter up the app's settings just for this (yet).

Re. 4 (custom buttons in the vacant Player 7..10's areas) -
Not sold on this one either. This area of the UI is the "content" area, which is for the player's cards and ranges and stats. Putting buttons here would make these buttons look out of place I think.
How about this: in the iPad version, in landscape mode, there's extra space in the toolbar at the top. So how about using this space to put some of the buttons you mention e.g. Save/Load scenarios, Export/Import, etc. Moving these up one or two levels out of the menu will save one or two taps.

Again, if I'm not sold yet on a suggestion, it doesn't mean it isn't a good one. It's just that I'm also trying to achieve a good minimality and cleanliness in the UI.
Thanks,
-RJ

Hey, RJ!
Thanks for the quick reply!!
Suggestion 1 (Cursor on the board) - Yeah, I totally agree that a single tap on the board is really easy and quick. The problem, for me, is that sometimes I forget to do it and when I tap a card (which was supposed to go to the board, goes to a player and totally unconfigue the scenario). Well, it seems that the way I use the app is definitely different to the way people use and/or was supposed to use
Suggestion 2 (Fold / Unfold) - Thanks for considering it!!!
Suggestion 3 (Iterations) - Sorry about the interations seetings. Didn't see it before. Feeling stupid about that... Personally, I would love the 1/4 x Default
Suggestion 4 (Custom buttons) - Thanks for considering this one as well. Since you are really paying attention to my suggestions, I would like to suggest two buttons: "Load Scenario" and a "Reset Button" that would reset MY cards and the board's cards. Of course, it would be nice to listen to other people favorite buttons... Or maybe make it really customizable (although I would still miss "my" reset button )

Besides that, to reach perfection, only if the app read online tables real time, so we didn't have to input it manually everytime!
Thanks for your time, RJ! Really!

I think this explains why I'm not liking some of your suggestions, at least for the iPhone and iPad versions. You're using the iPad version real-time while playing online hands (right?). The iOS versions were meant mainly for offline analysis of hands, or when discussing hands with friends, etc., not for real-time live hand use. Of course you can use the app real-time or any way you want, but for online play I think the Mac version of this app makes much more sense.

The Mac version is much faster to use for several reasons:
* All the buttons are laid out flat on a big screen and are a quick point and click away; they're not in menus and submenus.
* I've added keyboard shortcuts for starting and stopping a calc and for ResetAll.
* You can enter range %age's in players' text fields to quickly assign ranges like Top10%, or also range differences like Top10% but then remove Top2%.

But you need a Mac for this (no Windows version). I'm not just saying this to sell you the Mac version, but using the iPhone/iPad versions real-time doesn't sound like the best fit to me.

Regardless I'm going to do one or two of your suggestions, in the iPad version only, as I previously listed.

>>> if the app read online tables real time

This would be a killer feature indeed for the Mac version. I've tried to keep the prices low to make it easier for people to buy multiple versions, but I may have to up the price if I ever do this.

Thanks for your input. The app always gets better in some way when you guys write in.

Well, so that explains a lot! Yes, I use it online!
Unfortunately I don't have a Mac, so I'll have to keep using the Ipad!
Rj, thanks for all your reply and attention!
I'll be waiting anxiously for the possible updates and whenever I have a new suggestion, I'll come back!

Hello, first of all sorry for my English. I love this app, but I have a question. Can you put the villain in a range and know what the range with which you have a particular equity. For example:
Villain: 22 +, BROADWAY, A5s +, A9o + (20.4%)
The question is, what range of hands with which I have a 30% equity against that range?
Can you know this feature with this app?
I hope I explained. Thank you.

Hello,
Thanks for buying and liking this app.
I'd call this feature a "range solver". The app can't do this automatically currently, but here's a manual way. You can do a binary search to find the range. I say "the" range, but I don't think the answer is unique in most cases, so I should say "a solution range".

First start with Top100% i.e. a random hand as the guess and calculate. When I enter this in the app i.e. Player1:{your 20.4% range}, Player2:Top100%, I get 37% as your (Player2's) equity. You want 30% equity, so we want a range that's weaker than Top100%.

So then enter Bottom50% as your next guess for Player2. In the Mac version you can enter this easily as text "100% r 50%", or just "r 50%", but in the iPhone version it's a two step process: first add Top100%, then select Top50% and remove it. When I calc this I get 31% as your equity, which is pretty close to the answer you want. If you want to go one more step in the search you can try Bottom25%, and then your next guess in the binary search will probably be Bottom37.5%.

I know this is manual and slow, but this would be a pretty advanced feature for a small device version like iPhone. It could be a good feature to add to the Mac version someday. I think fairly new Mac's would be fast enough to complete these kinds of searches in a reasonable amount of time like 10 or 15 sec.

Would this manual method work for you?
Thanks, -RJ

Thank you very much for the reply and for being so fast. Try this method. Congratulations for this great app

Hi- I have pokercruncher on iPad and iPhone. I recently changed to Samsung-do I need to pay again to get an android version?

Thanks for buying the iOS versions.
Answer: yes.
Reasons:

1) I invested significant additional work and time and money to make the Android version. Seems fair for customers to pay additional money for the new version.

2) Many people have already bought both the iOS and Android versions. Wouldn't be fair to start free/reduced pricing now.

3) The iOS app store doesn't send us app devs customer purchase receipts or customer names or id's of any kind, so we don't know who has already bought which versions. We get just total download counts. I guess I could ask people to mail me their iTunes purchase receipts as proofs of purchase, but that can be spoofed, and it seems like an awful lot of bookkeeping effort/time.

4) Even if I wanted to offer a free/reduced price for multiple version purchases, there's no mechanism for such different pricing on the app stores. An app can have only one price, and everyone sees the same price.

I hope you can understand my reasons, and that you will still be a fan of PokerCruncher on Android. -RJ

I also mailed your support but I don't know which way is faster/more likely to be seen, so here it goes:



I just had an idea that would make your already really good app really awesome.

Right now, I only use it for preflop and flop calculations (with ranges), as it's a painful process to "cut" ranges from the flop to the turn (as in: delete hands they fold manually).

So what I would really love is:

Say you have two ranges (85% and 60%) and you get to a random flop (let's say 7h 5s 4s).
Calculate and you can go to the heatmap, where some are green, yellow, red.

I suggest, you let us define a % of equity needed, and automatically "cut" everything that is beneath.
Is that technically possible? It would be just awesome! You'd be able to go to the next street really fast with nearly accurate ranges.

Please consider adding this feature and, either way, tell me what you think about it.

Hello AvoidMe?,

Thanks for sending this suggestion. 2p2 is better than email because then others may improve on what you and I come up with.

First, a feature that makes it easier to manually modify ranges is tap/swipe to select multiple cells, then tap "Remove" or "Add". Before doing this I usually save the original range so I can revert if necessary.

But you're right, manually modifying ranges is a pain and it's slow any way you cut it. I like your general idea of an automatic range modify/filter feature. It's on my long term to-do list but in a different form as I'll explain.

I have a fear with adding the feature in the form you suggested (cut all cells that have < x% equity), because people may use it incorrectly. Normal usage of the app is that you'll enter a specific hand your yourself e.g. JJ, and enter a range say Top5% for your opponent. Then a flop is dealt, say it's JT2 rainbow. If people then use the feature to filter the Top5% range on e.g. < 25% equity, then since TT (middle set) is crushed by our top set of Jacks, it won't make it into the filtered range. But in actual play, of course our opponent will continue with his middle set of Tens.

The usage here is incorrect because our opponent is putting us on a range as well in his mind, so we should enter a range for us not our specific cards JJ. This is exactly what you suggest in this feature (range vs. range), but I'm just afraid that people won't use the app and this feature this way and will run specific hand vs. range.

So I have a different form of this feature, let me know what you think of this: Enter opponent's range, then enter the flop cards. The feature will then ask you what kinds of hands you want to keep in the range based on made hand types (e.g., TopPair, MiddlePair, etc., TwoPair, 3OfAKind, etc.), and also based on draw hand types (4 flush draw, open ender, gutshot, draw combinations, etc.). This will be implemented as a big list of checkboxes and you turn on the ones you're interested in keeping. Basically this is a "build range based on flop hit" feature.

An advantage is that this can't be mis-used. A disadvantage is that it doesn't take our range in our opponent's mind into account (as your suggestion does). I haven't decided on a final form for this feature, and it's longer range anyway. I've been busy with more basic things (an update with retina card graphics just went live in the iPhone version, and of course I'll be updating the other versions too). But sometime I hope to add some advanced features like this.

Thanks for writing, do let me know what you think. -RJ

Hey RJ,

You are right that people may misuse this future when applied to hand vs. range.

I thought about your suggestion before aswell and I have mixed feelings about it.
Here's why:

I feel people who don't understand the concept of range vs. range against hand vs. range will not use this feature excessively anyway (if at all the heatmap). So I feel, a disclaimer stating the downsides of this function when applied wrong might suffice.

Furthermore, I feel checking a lot of checkboxes, especially at a small screen, might be a pain too. In my mind it's just so much handier to just have another scrollbar (as there already is with the colors) that you can slide, then have two buttons "cut" and "revert" and after pressing "cut" see the cut range, maybe with the "now-cut" hands in a slightly different color than the already-folded hands so that you can manually re-check if there are hands you want to take back in.

Futhermore, I feel the scrollbar might be more easily appliable technically and consequently sooner to implement into the app, but I might not have the IT know-how to be right about this.


Please share your thoughts on this.

Thanks for good discussion. I'm hoping others will also give their thoughts on this feature.

1) Re. a warning alert for this feature -

Yes definitely, if we implement it in your form. But my suggested form for this feature doesn't require a warning alert which may be a sign that it's a more intuitive and natural way to do it. I understand that there are always exceptions though e.g. I've added a warning/info note for the Deal-To-Flop/Turn/HoleCards feature.

2) Re.: I feel checking a lot of checkboxes, especially at a small screen, might be a pain too. -

You'll only need to do this the first time. Your checkbox selections will be remembered in the state of the app. Can also save several sets of checkbox selections e.g. for if Villain flat calls in position, raises in position, out of position, for different styles of players, etc. But I'm getting ahead of the main issue.

3) Re.: I feel the scrollbar might be more easily appliable technically and consequently sooner to implement -

Yes your suggestion is easier to implement than mine. But I'm still not as convinced about the good benefits it will give, as I'll explain further below, so I'd rather do the more work feature if it will give better results.

Why I'm still not sold on your suggestion (cut cells that have < x% equity), call it suggestion A:

4) I think suggestion B (cut/retain cells based on hand types and draw types) is the way people think when they're playing and analyzing hands, and is more natural. E.g. if you look in many strategy threads on this forum, when people construct ranges they write something like "for Villain's range I'll include overpairs and sets and TPTK and the Ace/King high flush draw". When I play hands this is how I think too e.g. "he's prob. got an overpair here but he could have AK some %age of the time, so for now on the flop I'll just call with my low pair and see what he does on the turn". I think people think in terms of hand types, not in terms of range cells' individual equities against the range Villain is putting me on.

5) I think suggestion A can lead to bad cell cut/retain results. I tried this example similar to yours in the app:

Player 1 (Us): Top40% (this is the range Villain is putting us on)
Player 2 (Villain): Top30%
Flop: 3s Qd 9c

Now I look at Villain's heat map (attached below) and want to cut all cells that have < 30% equity. I choose 30% because I want to keep good draws like open enders which will have >= 30% equity (like the JT open ender possible here).

JTo has 45% equity against our range.
But note that ATo has 44% equity.
So JTo and ATo have pretty much the same equity against our range and so these two cells will be treated the same way by Suggestion A's cut/retain logic.

But JTo and ATo are very different hands in this scenario. One is drawing to the nuts and can win Villain's entire stack. The other is much less valuable. If I were narrowing down Villain's range after the flop action, I'd keep JT for sure, and prob. won't keep AT (or may keep just one or two combos of AT to weight it downward). Since Suggestion A keeps both of them, I think it may actually be doing the user of this feature a disservice!

So I'm still leaning towards Suggestion B. Would love to hear your further thoughts on this, or other readers' thoughts. Thanks.

One more point:

6) I think app usage flow is better with Suggestion B. In normal usage of the app you start preflop by entering your specific cards and a range for your opponent. With Suggestion A, to refine Villain's range on the flop you need to change your cards to the range Villain is putting you on. Then after refining Villain's range, you need to go back to your two specific cards and re-calculate for the turn, then repeat on the turn. This back and forth on your hand would be a pain too like turning checkboxes on/off. But this back and forth on your hand has to be done every time, whereas the checkboxes state can be saved/restored automatically. With Suggestion B your hand stays the same two specific cards the whole way through the hand; I think this is more logical and natural usage.

I know people that use the Mac version while playing online. The going back and forth on your hand from specific hand to range back to specific hand would slow things down too much online.

Just putting all pros / cons that come to my mind out there.
Thanks for bringing up this good feature.
Hopefully with your good input and input from others we can have a real working feature on this someday.

Alright, so I think I can now put my finger on why and where our opinions differ.

So I'm playing HU SNGs at a rather high buy-in, so when I play there's just a lot more floating and more theoretical approach of equity, which is why checking "any pair, any draw" is basically never accurate for me.

While I feel in basically every game you can play this should be the case, I agree with you most players using your app won't be on this level on calculating, so I probably agree your approach might be better for the general population. This said, I still feel not a lot of players using range vs. hand calculation will bother dealing with this particular feature anyways.

So yeah, now I'm basically 50/50 on each approach, do whatever you feel is right

This changes the ballgame! If I knew this from the start my discussion would have been different. I have been looking at this feature from the full table NL with medium/deep stacks point of view, which is the game I think most users of the app play (either cash games or tournaments).

Heads up is a totally different, specialized, ballgame, esp. when the stacks start to get small compared to the blinds, as will always happen eventually. In this case as you say the game becomes more theoretical in terms of equity calculation and the game becomes more suited to range equity calculations. What I said about JT and AT in my example prob. doesn't hold. AT is a very strong hand heads up, and as you say you can't just let it go too easily on the flop. Whereas in full table med/deep NL cash games, I'd value JT more on that flop, esp. if stacks are deep, and more than 2 players saw the flop.

So now I think the right thing to do for this feature is both Suggestion A and Suggestion B! People can decide what method is best for them to narrow down their opponent's range. I'll still want a warning/info note for Suggestion A though.

However this feature is prob. months away from happening. I just made a big graphics and UI update to the iPhone version (retina cards) which I need to make in all the other versions. For 4+ years I've been making many (free) updates to all the apps, and have been very happy to do so as I want them to keep getting better, but features like automatic range narrowing are pretty advanced so I've been kicking around the idea of an in-app-purchase for a "professional pack upgrade" to get features like this, and some other new features I have on my to-do. Question: would this cause some kind of revolt or would a good number of people be happy to pay say an additional $4.99 for some advanced features like automatic range narrowing? It's just that I feel that after 4 years of free updates, an in-app-purchase big upgrade isn't pushing it (I hope).

Thanks for writing with your suggestion and for the good discussion.