Great to hear, thanks.
You were looking at the Mac-Expert version I remember right, you got that one or the iPhone version? (this is the iPhone version thread)
Either way all good, welcome to PokerCruncher.

The Tutorial & Videos webpage is a good place to start.
I'd start out just looking at the section titles and seeing what features are there, and what the additional expert-level features are if you have the Mac-Expert version.
The tutorial video at the top of the page, that too I'd start out with just the first ~15 mins.
In the written tutorial and video there's a lot of content, will/should take some time to digest.

Got it on iphone. Worth every penny.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got the mac expert version. I watched that tutorial a while back, and rewatched it again, up to the point that he brings in a word doc. I've got the basics down, just need to figure out the subranges and all the stuff that compares how ranges are doing on each board. Everything thus far has been easy to use once I figured it out. Ah, **** I didn't realize their were two threads. If I have any more questions I'll go back to that one.

Good, see you on the Mac version thread in the future if/when needed.

Re. subranges, the current solution in this app is to save/load them in the 100 app-internal range slots. The tutorial has a section "Manage Subranges" (for Mac-Expert version) e.g. how to generate subranges automatically, and save/load and add/remove them.

That's the right point to stop at in the video tutorial (the ~17 min. mark), in the first viewings.

There have been some changes/improvements to the app since the video was made, listed at the top of the tutorial webpage. E.g. range grid mouse click/drag behavior was changed, SHIFT+click etc. behavior; should be clear after you start clicking around on the range grid. -RJ

Cant get the subranges on the iPhone version. (Different categorization of whole range) Is this something that is not included in iPhone version or am i missing something? /Fredrik

Hello,
What subranges functionality are you referring to, the features mentioned in this section of the tutorial?

These extra subranges features are in the Mac ("Expert") version only, not in the "Advanced" iPhone, iPad, and Android versions. The main reason is that the Mac, being a more powerful machine with a much larger screen area and a more flexible keyboard/mouse input, allows for a more powerful program.

However we can work with subranges in the iPhone-Advanced version, but in a more "manual" way. For example the Mac-Expert version has a "filter range" feature that you can use to automatically generate subranges on the flop, then again on the turn, etc. But in the iPhone version you'll have to do the subrange editing manually, e.g. remove cells/hands that won't be in the range any more.

What I do is save the original preflop range in one of the 100 range slots, say into slot #1, then save the subranges into slots #2, #3, etc. Saving the subranges into separate slots lets us go back and forth and e.g. count/compare the number of hand combos in the subranges. I use the first 10 slots for such temporary subranges work, and I use the higher numbered slots to hold my more permanent library ranges.

Well that's one suggested usage for subranges, in the iPhone version.
If you give an example or usage scenario of what you want to do with subranges, we can look at how to do it. Thanks, -RJ

Thx for Quick anwser. Yeah i was trying to do that and managed but found it to be a little bit of a hustle. For example RFI CO with a range, gets called by BB then a flop comes. I want to count how many valuebet combos i have compared to bluffs on flop that i use as cb. Also i want to compare how many checks i have that are semigood and can balance out my **** hands. Would you suggest creating 5 ranges for this? First RFI CO in #1, valuebets in #2, bluffs in #3, good checksbacks #4 and **** hands in #5. Iwould like to get all of these Numbers in tje same view.

Then i want to do the same for BB range and of different turn and river runout. It becomes alot of different ranges and i see that i miss combos in some of the ranges since i cant see at the same time exactly what i categorized the hand where. Do you have any tip for this or do i need to get off my phone for this to be working efficiantly? 😊 Would be so awesome to have this on the phone

/Fredrik

>>> Yeah i was trying to do that and managed but found it to be a little bit of a hustle.

Yes extensive subranges work like this will be slower and more cumbersome to do in the Advanced versions of this app, but will go much faster in the Mac-Expert version as I'll describe below.

>>> For example RFI CO with a range, gets called by BB then a flop comes. I want to count how many valuebet combos i have compared to bluffs on flop that i use as cb. Also i want to compare how many checks i have that are semigood and can balance out my **** hands. Would you suggest creating 5 ranges for this? First RFI CO in #1, valuebets in #2, bluffs in #3, good checksbacks #4 and **** hands in #5.

Sounds like good analysis work; you're trying to make sure your range is balanced.

This will be much faster and easier to do in the Mac-Expert version of this app.

In the iPhone (Advanced) version, you have to manually create each of the subranges yourself by eyeballing the flop and the range and then picking out the value bet combos, bluffs, draws, etc. This is a lot of work to do and is error-prone because you're doing it manually and in your head. The very small iPhone screen doesn't help either i.e. you can't see all the pieces of the situation/scenario at the same time.

Compare to the Mac-Expert version: As already said its "filter range" feature is huge. For your value bet subrange, you'd turn on the checkmarks of the stats (hand types) that you want to include in the value bet subrange, e.g. all made hands TopPair or better. Then do a filter range operation. This generates your value bet subrange automatically; then save the subrange into one of the 100 range slots. Repeat for your bluffs subrange, then your other subranges e.g. semi-bluffs, checks, etc., saving each subrange into a different slot. Note that for each subrange you're having the app do the subrange-creation work for you (filter range operation); you're not painstakingly creating/editing each subrange yourself which is also error-prone.

5 subranges here sounds fine, but can easily be more or fewer, depends on our personal usages and analysis styles. E.g. I might divide up the bluffs subrange further into a semi bluffs subrange and a pure bluffs subrange. But that's just details. There are 100 range slots that you can save subranges into, should be flexible enough for anything, and we can name the range slots to keep track of what's where.

>>> Iwould like to get all of these Numbers in tje same view.

The Mac-Expert version has this ability. In the 100 range slots pulldown list, each subrange's number of hand combos is shown, so you can look at the combo counts of your 5 subranges all at once and for starters you can do a simple addition to make sure the counts add up to the original entire range. This is feature #7 in the manage subranges section of the tutorial. There are other features like add/remove subranges from a given range.

>>> Then i want to do the same for BB range and of different turn and river runout. It becomes alot of different ranges and i see that i miss combos in some of the ranges since i cant see at the same time exactly what i categorized the hand where.

You're doing pretty extensive subranges work, for each player in the hand and on each street, so there's no getting around having lots of subranges. Re. "since i cant see at the same time exactly what i categorized the hand where", the feature #7 mentioned in the previous paragraph helps with this in the Mac-Expert version.

>>> Do you have any tip for this or do i need to get off my phone for this to be working efficiantly?

The only tip I have is to move to the more powerful and much larger screen size Mac-Expert version : ).
You're not exactly a "lite" user, you're doing heavy subranges analysis, so I think you'll want to use the most powerful and largest screen size version of this program.

>>> 😊 Would be so awesome to have this on the phone

Yes, but it can't happen. The Mac-Expert version will always be the most powerful version of this program. Makes sense right that the device (Mac) that's the most powerful and largest screen size would have the most powerful version of this program. I'd say of any type of scientific analysis program.

Thanks for explaining your usage scenarios and for using PokerCruncher so thoroughly and effectively. -RJ

Hey,
yesterday i bought PokerCruncher and i like it so far.

I have a suggestion for a really nice additional feature: Could you implement a Random Number Generator, so that it would be easier to randomize actions?

So lets say im at a borderline spot and decided to call 30% of the time and raise 70% of the time. Then you would press a RNG-Button (default maybe between 0 and 100?) and it would say 24 so i would call in this case.
Would be really great to have something like this.

Great that you like the app so far.
Instead of adding a feature to the app for this, may I suggest the following alternatives:

1) Use the second-hand of your watch or a clock as your random number generator (and scale from 0..60 to 0..100). Or your iPhone's clock. This was suggested in some books I've read as a good way to randomize your play. A big advantage of this is that it's un-noticeable to other players. Whereas during a live hand people may object to you pulling out an app and hitting buttons on it, even if it's just to generate a random number.

2) iOS's system "Calculator" app has a "Rand" button. On an iPhone switch to landscape orientation to see the many extra buttons.

3) iPhone's system "Clock" app - Go to the Stopwatch, and start/stop the stopwatch real quick. The last digit (1/100 of a sec) will serve as a very good random number between 0 and 9.

4) Or if you want to do this in the PokerCruncher app - ResetAll to start clean, tap the River card to select it, then tap the "Rnd" button. If you look at just the suit of the generated card, in some standard order e.g. the app's order spade, heart, club, diamond, this gives a 4-value random number i.e. 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%. Or for more resolution, look at just the rank of the generated card. There are 13 ranks, but we want just 10, so ignore K, Q, J; if these are generated then tap the Rnd button again to generate a new card. So then you have a 10-value random rank number, A, 2, 3, ..., 10, which is a random number to 10% accuracy.

Would any of these work for you?
There are prob. some other ways to do this too. But I'd prefer the ways that are the least obtrusive/visible to other people.
Edit (add): O.w. if you use your phone often during hands for such purposes, it may start looking odd to other people at the minimum, and it could affect your table image/action going forward.

First of all, thanks for the quick reply and the recommendations, you really make a big effort for staying in touch with your costumers and providing useful alternatives.

1) I already tried the option with a clock and its probably the best option because you always carry it with you and a taking a look at the clock looks pretty natural.

2) Doesn't work for me because I don't own an iPhone.

3) Works the same at Android, too. Might even work better than the actual clock because you have a fixed number and not a moving handle that can sometimes be misread.

4) That of course also would work. Not an option for me because I dislike the usage of a phone at the live tables, especially because of the reasons you already mentioned (taking too long, lack of concentration/observation of players, looking somehow awkward?)


I have another question regarding the Heatmaps.
Lets say I build two ranges (CO open and BTN 3bet) and take a look at the Heatmap from the perspective of the CO. Building a CO calling range, should I simply fold ATs (33.8%) but call K5s (76.7%)? Somehow it doesnt look right to me calling with K5s... Or do I simply not understand what these heatmaps mean?

I see, you're using the Android version of this app. This is the iOS version thread for this app hence my replies were iOS specific. The Android version has its own 2p2 thread, but people hardly ever post there. I guess this iOS version thread has more visibility; no biggie, we can discuss here.

>>> 1) I already tried the option with a clock and its probably the best option ...

I agree and had written similarly in my previous reply. It's best to have an overall game plan that doesn't rely on a phone or app or really anything external in any way. It prob. violates rules, is unfair to other players who aren't doing this, and also would look odd and improper. Think of you (or I) at the main event final table; we can't be using apps to aid our play in any way here! (can dream right)

>>> I have another question regarding the Heatmaps. Lets say I build two ranges (CO open and BTN 3bet) and take a look at the ...

Would need to see the exact ranges you're using for cutoff-open and button-3bet to answer further (the range texts, or just e.g. Top33%, Top15%). Because currently I don't see how K5s could have such a high equity (77%) against button's 3-bet range (unless button's 3-bet range is constructed in a highly limited or polarized way). So would be good to see your exact ranges so can reproduce your scenario.

Re. what the heatmaps mean, I think you have the right meaning. But note that the heatmap equity values, and all the equity values in the app (or in any app), are hot/cold equity values e.g. going to the River. Unless you've set DealTo = Flop or Turn. There's more to consider beyond just hot/cold equity, i.e. the flop playability of hands. For example a suited connector might have fairly low hot/cold equity but if effective stacks are deep and you're up against opponents that could stack off, these hands' ability to flop draws, and turn draws, adds big value beyond just hot/cold equity.

My CO 2.5xbb open range: 22+, A2s+, K5s+, Q7s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, 54s, A7o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o

My BTN 3-bet range against a 2.5xbb CO open:

TT+, half of the 99, AKs, ATs, A2s-A5s, KQs, KJs, half of the AQs and AJs, AJo, ATo, KQo, half of the AKo, AQo

How do you like these ranges? Do I have too few Kings in my 3bet range to let K5s make so good against it? But if so, how do I construct a good calling range?

My BTN calling range against a 2.5xbb CO open is right now: half of the AQs and AJs, 77-88, half of the 99, KJo, half of the AKo and AQo

Thank you so much for your help!

Edit: Im so sorry, it looks like I didn't compare these ranges because if I do now, K5s only has 37.2%, my bad! But surprisingly, 55 have more Equity than 99 (57.8% vs. 51.3%).

Ok good, resolved, it was user error. This is what I had guessed from the start, "Because currently I don't see how K5s could have such a high equity (77%) against button's 3-bet range".

A suggestion re. your given range texts: it's best to give the exact raw range texts from the app, not descriptions like "half of the AQs and AJs". This avoids errors and ambiguities on both sides, and makes reproducing your scenario much easier for readers (copy/paste into the app). This app, all versions, has export-text commands for hand range texts (in the menu in the hand range editor screen), as well as an entire scenario (in the menu in the main screen). E.g. if you search "PokerCruncher-Advanced" on 2p2 you'll see many examples of scenario-texts people have copied/pasted in many strategy threads. Full info/accuracy using the exact and full texts is the way to go.

Your cutoff-open range looks reasonable to me, it's 36% of total hands. Your button-3bet range is just 7.8% of hands; looks a little too tight to me. I'd prob make it more like 10..15% of hands, by adding e.g. some suited connectors (high and med ranks). However effective stacks need to be at least somewhat deep to get better value from suited connectors as semi-bluffs (and for fold equity) as I said in my last post.

But I should back up here, range construction and strategy is mostly out of the scope of this thread. This is a support, questions, features, suggestions thread for this app. And I'm not an accredited poker coach so keep in mind this part is all just imo. However I am a winning 2/5 and lower NL player for 10+ years so my 2c is prob worth something.

Also, you could post your cutoff and button range construction question / example on a strategy subforum / thread and get feedback from some very knowledgeable 2p2 people. If you do, do remember to give your exact and full export-texts.

Re. "Do I have too few Kings in my 3bet range to let K5s make so good against it? " -
That had nothing to do with it.

Again like before, I'm not seeing this result, and think it's user error on your side. I'm seeing 55 has 44% equity, 99 has 46% equity. This is using your given range texts (I manually did the "half of ... combos" parts). I'm not going to give my scenario-text (yet); the burden of proof is on your side first to give your scenario text : ). This makes sense because the button-3bet range is mainly broadway cards so 99 and 55 (and all pocket pairs 99 and lower) will behave mostly the same against the mostly broadway cards range.

When you're looking at heat maps, note that it's good to increase the simulation run to 2x or more the default number (there's a setting for this in the app). This is because each hand/cell of the range will have only a small fraction of the total sim trials contributing to calc that hand/cell's equity, so a longer simulation is better for accuracy at the hand/cell level. I don't think this is the issue as to what you're seeing with 55 and 99 but just wanted to point this out. With your 55 and 99, I think it's again user error. If you give your full/exact scenario-text I can repro and check.

badregg -
Re. your post #513, I just noticed that 15 mins. after your post you made an edit and changed your button-3bet range to:

TT+, half of the 99, AKs, ATs, A2s-A5s, KQs, KJs, half of the AQs and AJs, AJo, ATo, KQo, half of the AKo, AQo

In my last post I was still working off your original post's info i.e. this range (I didn't see your change):

TT+, half of the 99, AKs, ATs, A2s-A5s, half of the AQs and AJs, AJo, ATo, half of the AKo, AQo

So you added KQs, KJs, KQo (good additions I believe). This changes the range's %age from 7.8% (the number I had given) to 9.3% of hands. I still think something larger like 15% here would be better. You have an opportunity to isolate a fairly wide late position open in position and with the betting lead. Even better if effective stacks are fairly deep. And you don't want the cutoff to get away with stealing your button position too often. So I'd 3-bet wider than your range. But if stacks are shallow then I think your given range is pretty OK.

Another suggestion for operating on 2p2 and other forums in the future: when you make an important edit (e.g. to key info./data in your post), you can leave an update message like "changed button 3-bet range", or give some other indication in the post itself. For example in my last post I made an edit and left an edit message. Of course if the edit is just a wording or punctuation edit there's no need to leave a message, but imo if key info/data is changed you'll help your readers if you leave an edit message. Sorry if it seems like I'm nitpicking, also with the give exact range/scenario texts suggestion, but I gotta say what I think if it'll help both of us for the future.

Also in your above range, why weight down AKo to 50% of its combos, but leave AJo and ATo at full/100% combos? AKo is a better hand than AJo and ATo; if I wanted to weight the range down I'd weight down ATo instead of AKo. Same applies for weighting down AQs and AJs.

Wow, thank you for your detailled answers. I really appreciate it if someone takes the time and makes an effort in helping!

So next time I will definetly try to use the exact raw range texts.

Yeah you're right, maybe my 3bet range should be wider there. Will work on that.
I can understand that you can't go further, you are right that this is not a strategy thread but thanks for all the advice you already gave.

Yeah I'm sorry for the confusion I'm responsible for. Marking your edits seems logical.

I weighed down AKo because I think (I don't know if it is wrong though) that you want to have AK in both of your 3-bet and calling range to protect your calling range. Again, I'm not sure about this and my work is for sure not finished.

Thanks for the thanks; you're welcome.

>>> you want to have AK in both of your 3-bet and calling range to protect your calling range

I think your protection plan is good and is needed. It's just that only a few hands/cells were weighted down in your range and it looked arbitrary as to the few hands/cells chosen (AKo, AQs, AJs). E.g. AKs wasn't weighted down, but AKo was. And for the same protection reasons I think you'd also want your other strong hands AA and KK to sometimes be in your calling range for protection and for some deception, but they weren't weighted down.

The key word is sometimes, low frequency, like say 10% of the time. O.w. we'll end up trapping ourselves. This is where your random number suggestion, coin flip, etc. comes in to model 90/10 or 80/20 etc. Because for many things in poker, we don't want to do the same thing 100% of the time. But another suggestion of mine is don't use an app and push buttons to get the 90/10 or 80/20 coin flips; it has to be done in an unnoticeable and legal way.

If I were creating these ranges, I would prob. just leave all hands' weights at the default/100% combo weights for simplicity, and implement the 90/10 protection play at a higher level, on the entire range. So if I'm the button and the cutoff opens then 90% of the time I'll 3-bet with this range, and 10% of the time I'll smooth call with this range. Especially if the blinds are overly aggressive and could make the 3-bet as a steal or just thinking that they have the best hand, putting the cutoff and us on fairly wide and weak ranges, which is how we played the hand so far, so our perceived ranges are pretty wide/weak.

Anyway I'm back to talking strategy, I love talking strategy but I'll stop for now. Feel free to post more strategy questions here esp. if they relate to the app's usage, but also pls. consider starting new threads in the 2p2 strategy subforums to get feedback from some knowledgeable people.
All the best. -RJ

Bought the iphone bundle and so far really worth it! After running a Calc for a hand vs range for example and going to stats it gives percentages which seem to be odds of a certain hand rank by the river. For a random non paired hand I am getting odds for 2 pair at around 23%. Aren't the odds of making 2 pair by the river with 2 unpaired cards closer to ~5% ? I have seen such a post on 2+2. Are the odds in stats indicating referring to something else?

Thanks for buying the app bundle.

>>> Aren't the odds of making 2 pair by the river with 2 unpaired cards closer to ~5% ?

The issue here is in the meaning of "making" and in the meaning of the app's stats. The stats are the odds for *making* a particular hand, whether the board cards help or not (which is the normal textbook-definition of the stats). You're interested in the odds for strongly *hitting* a particular hand, where the player's hole cards fully participate in hitting the hand (and aren't counterfeited). For example for the TwoPair stat, if the board has a pair on it, it's possible that the player has made TwoPair but hasn't hit TwoPair (he's hit just OnePair).

The iPhone(Advanced) version of this app can calculate both "make" and "hit" stats, but only for DealTo = Flop. Not for DealTo = River or Turn because hit stats are too expensive (slow) to calculate for the Turn and River in the mobile device versions of this app.

However the Mac(Expert) version of this app can calculate hit stats for all streets. I checked in that version and for e.g. JTo I get the results you gave: JTo hits TwoPair by the river 5.1% of the time, and makes TwoPair 22.3% of the time.

This section of the tutorial shows an example of make vs. hit stats in the iPhone-Advanced version (for DealTo = Flop):

http://www.pokercruncher.com/ipPoker...ToFlopAnalysis

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't think it would make that much of a % difference in having 2 pair by the river if pairs on the board counted.

One more thing; is it possible to delete any saved hand ranges? or should they just be overwritten? There doesn't seem to be a way to do it by going to 'Menu' in the hand range view.

Just goes to show that our intuition can be off sometimes. It's pretty easy for the board to make a pair because it has 5 cards to do this with. Using this app I got these stats: by the river, the board has one pair on it 42% of the time, and has two pair on it 4.7% of the time. So almost half the time the board has at least one pair on it, by the river.

To calc the above in this app I set DealTo = Flop, turning the simulation into a 5-card game, which is equivalent to the board's 5 cards in a 7-card game. Then I looked at the "make hand" stats of a random hand (blank cards) player (not the "hit hand" stats).

>>> One more thing; is it possible to delete any saved hand ranges? or should they just be overwritten?

Yeah the way to delete a saved hand range is to overwrite an empty range on top of it. In a future app update I'll consider adding a dedicated "Clear Saved Hand Range" button in the menu. I haven't so far because the overwrite method works, although it does take a few taps. But even with a new menu button for this we still need a couple of taps and we still need to select which saved range to clear. But it would save a couple of taps. I'm adding this new menu button to my to-do list but not at super high priority.
Thanks for input.

thanks for the additional insight. the "deal to" feature is pretty useful for flop analysis and I am actually able to do "deal to turn" and not only "deal to flop" like you had mentioned would only be available on iphone.

yeah agreed; its pretty simple to overwrite a range. but once you have stored many it might be useful to know which ones you no longer need and just have empty spots there for when you are saving a new range.

Yes DealTo = Flop is very useful, especially on a range to do flop texture analysis.

A clarification, I didn't say the iPhone-Advanced version doesn't have DealTo = Turn, but rather, it doesn't have "hit hand" stats for DealTo = Turn (only has "make hand" stats).

For DealTo = Flop there are 3 pages of stats and also both "make hand" stats and "hit hand" stats. Hit hand stats are activated by tapping the "Hit" button in the Stats popup view.

For DealTo = Turn there's just 1 page of stats and no "hit hand" stats.

I agree that a "Clear Saved Hand Range" button would be a nice addition, I'll add it in the near future.

I want to buy a expert version but im not sure if i can set the flop/turn to a chosen pattern such as "monotone flop","4 straight turn“such as 4567 or 4568. or a two-tone flop+flush possible turn.
I want to see the average stats of all chosen flops/turns,but a single one.

Note that this is the PokerCruncher-iOS thread. The Mac-Expert version of this app has its own separate thread. Not a big deal in this case because this question applies to all versions of the app.

I didn't understand the logic in your last sentence; did you mean "not" instead of "but"?

To do what you want you can just enter a representative specific flop e.g. for "monotone flop" you can enter three spades (or another suit). To help with this the "Rnd" button can automatically generate different kinds of random flops for you: tap/select a flop card, then you can generate broadway, medium, low, suited, and paired flops. You can then click the Rnd button repeatedly to generate many flops of your chosen type. This applies to all versions of this app.

If you're asking is there a way to specify a range type for the flop/turn/river e.g. "suited board", or "4-straight board", i.e. the same concept as hand ranges for players but for the board so "board ranges", the answer is no, the app doesn't have this feature. I've thought about this feature before and decided the bang for the buck and usefulness isn't there because we can just enter representative specific flops of a given type, and use the Rnd button to make this faster.