Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
*** Pokerazor 1.0 Available ! *** *** Pokerazor 1.0 Available ! ***

09-03-2008 , 11:02 AM
I am happy to announce Pokerazor 1.0.
It's free software for now. It will remain free untill we cope with all licensing issues which may take some time. Most of it (or even all) will be free in commercial release too.
You can download it here.

Many things are still missing as they are at diffrent stage of development.
Here is quick overview of what's available :

1)This is main screen for Pokerazor and the one you will see most often :



2)Here is a powerful condition editory; Many minor things are still missing (kickers for pairs and flushes most notably) but you can do a lot with them. We are especially happy to offer "board texture" feature.



3)A condition tool helping to verify if the condition does what you want it to. It may be used for obtaining many stats too :



4)A configuration view. Here you define starting point of the simulation. Active players, stacks, ranges, montecarlo options. It should be pretty intuitive :



5)Range selector. Very similair to the one from old Pokerazor but with some features added. Most notably weights for hands and directory structure for the saves



Optimal strategy finder. This is very powerful tool. You can find most exploitive strategy vs defined strategy in few seconds and then browse through the results to see what are the best/worse street cards for your hand and to see the diffrence between actions taken. This tool is a little complicated. More examples and explanation is coming. For now we offer a sample case "calling station killer".



That's for now.
Pokerazor does all only-preflop calcs for 2players instantly. It is slow and not fine tuned for multiway pots now.

Many features will be added soon (our main concern is to get licensing system to work for now though). I will make a pool and users will be able to vote for the most wanted feature. Here are some examples :

-Nash equilibrium solver : we got it working for one street cases with multiple raises/reraises but it's still slow and not fine-tuned. It will probably be able to solve 2street games too once we work on it
-ICM and other tournament model support. This would require adding "generic player options" to make multiway pots bearable. We plan to add it sooner or later but we haven't decided yet if it's important
-Quizzes for solver cases : I am not saying more It will be cool and will allow to learn correct plays in many situations. This feature is our priority
-Expanding condition editor : most notably kickers for pairs and flushes are missing; most cases can be deal with otherwise but this still would be very useful
-speeding up calculations; both monte carlo and evaluatio may be speeded up; one of the main problems is fast 7-card evaluator. Most of them are GPL'ed and we can't use them. Once we get access to really fast evaluator the calculations would be a lot of faster; monte carlo may be fine tuned and speeded up in many ways
-generic players - this would allow to make many simulaitons in multiway pots

There are more. There are some ideas I don't want to talk about. Feel free to suggest your own and report any bugs/request you may have in current version
Enjoy !

Last edited by punter11235; 09-03-2008 at 11:11 AM.
09-03-2008 , 11:07 AM
hint: include a download link in your post??
09-03-2008 , 11:18 AM
Ty, corrected.
09-03-2008 , 11:22 AM
Feature request, very important imo and something I told Scylla too (I was happy to see him take up my suggestion): allow users to copypaste hands from HEM and PT into Pokerazor. Inputting a hand from the blinds to the river is very slow, and errors lurk just about everywhere. Software like Pokerazor and StoxEV become a lot more instructive and fun to use when you can just copypaste an actual hand. It makes a difference between inputting a minute, analysis for half an hour versus inputting half an hour and analysis a minute.
09-03-2008 , 11:26 AM
punter, can you make a training video please? I always feel that I'm not getting the same out of software tool as if I could watch the guy that wrote it do it.
09-03-2008 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
Feature request, very important imo and something I told Scylla too (I was happy to see him take up my suggestion): allow users to copypaste hands from HEM and PT into Pokerazor.
We are in the process of seeing how Pokerazor will be integrated with HM. There are nmany possible benefits for both sides and Roy is interested in this too
Just give us some time.
09-03-2008 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
We are in the process of seeing how Pokerazor will be integrated with HM. There are nmany possible benefits for both sides and Roy is interested in this too
Just give us some time.
ha, lol, I once wrote Roy that he should integrate pokerstove into HEM (I didn't know about you guys back then) - he was the one who pointed me in your direction first. I would love to see this happen, would be immensely powerful I think. GL with that.
09-03-2008 , 01:24 PM
Software looks promising but when i tried to use the Explotative Strategy finder it crashed. I only did a simple river tree and the tree was correct with no errors. I also tried a turn start with the same result.
09-03-2008 , 02:19 PM
looking forward to trying this out later tonight
09-03-2008 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neku
Feature request, very important imo and something I told Scylla too (I was happy to see him take up my suggestion): allow users to copypaste hands from HEM and PT into Pokerazor. Inputting a hand from the blinds to the river is very slow, and errors lurk just about everywhere. Software like Pokerazor and StoxEV become a lot more instructive and fun to use when you can just copypaste an actual hand. It makes a difference between inputting a minute, analysis for half an hour versus inputting half an hour and analysis a minute.
Can StoxEV currently do this?

This is just too obvious and useful a suggestion for these types of programs NOT to be able to do this. The process of entering conditions is soooooo tedious (and human-error prone)
09-03-2008 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdundee
Software looks promising but when i tried to use the Explotative Strategy finder it crashed. I only did a simple river tree and the tree was correct with no errors. I also tried a turn start with the same result.
fixed
09-03-2008 , 08:20 PM
AVG put up a message "Threat detected, trojan horse" when I d/l'ed this. Is that supposed to happen?
09-03-2008 , 08:51 PM
Nvm, think it's a false positive.
09-04-2008 , 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teddyFBI
Can StoxEV currently do this?

This is just too obvious and useful a suggestion for these types of programs NOT to be able to do this. The process of entering conditions is soooooo tedious (and human-error prone)
yes, stox does this
09-05-2008 , 08:08 AM
This is one sick prog. I am glad it's a bit tedious. Last thing I want is a 1 tabling moneky sitting in front of a computer manually inputting PT data and coming up with perfect play all the time.
09-05-2008 , 06:59 PM
The coolest feature of pokerazor is so far the Most Exploitive strategy finder.
We have prepared a case callingstation.prc you can play with.

It is a situation where you are heads up on the flop against a player who will only call or fold. He will act like a typical calling station. Basically he will call first bet with any hand that connected to the board(any pair but no low pocket pair, any draw incl. gutshots etc.) second bet with slightly better made hands and all draws and third bet with top pair or better.

You can browse how does look optimal strategy against this player.

To do so please follow few steps.
Download the callingstation.prc
double click the file to open it in pokerazor.

Select flop in game configuration. Choose the flop you want to analyse.
Tools -> Most Exploitive Strategy Finder

Here select some range you want to assing villain (default is quite tight preflop calling range) and a single hand for hero.

Click Start and wait few seconds.

Now you can browse the strategy. You can see the exact EV of each your decision. You can see how does EV of your hand change depending on turn card (you can sort them by EV), you can see how does opponent range changes basing on your decisions.

It can lead to some interesting results. For instance you can try to guess what will be the best/worst turn card for you and check whether your intuition is correct.

It should be clear how to do it.

Also checkout the newest entry on punter 's blog which deals with using pokerazor to find unexploitable defence against maniac bluffing.

Enjoy!
09-06-2008 , 02:09 PM
seems that we can set bet/call/fold when certain condition is met, but we cannot set % of time the action will be taken even under that particular condition, or i have missed someting?

example, with ace high on river, the opp will call 50% and fold 50%....seems like i can only set when opp has ace high he/she will either call or fold

thanks
09-06-2008 , 02:21 PM
Could someone (punter?) please post a really simple strategy analysis walkthrough, I can't seem to figure out how to properly enter a complete decision tree something like "how (un)profitable is it to call a 3bet with any pocket pair, then check/fold to any bet unless hit set+"?
09-06-2008 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _dave_
Could someone (punter?) please post a really simple strategy analysis walkthrough, I can't seem to figure out how to properly enter a complete decision tree something like "how (un)profitable is it to call a 3bet with any pocket pair, then check/fold to any bet unless hit set+"?
I've tried to do this 3 times now - first time all went OK, but then I fidled with something and it crashed when I tried to add AK to the 3-bet caller's range Then 2nd and 3rd time it crashed while I was trying to input the strategy... Will have to leave for time being, but it looks very cool and has a fairly intuative interface - just needs ICM stuff adding now!

Juk
09-06-2008 , 07:53 PM
Here you go

This is complete working example with comments (please use note tab to see the comments for diffrent nodes).
Designing interface is difficult... I thought it's very intuitive and simple with highliting errors etc but still it causes many problems
09-07-2008 , 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
Designing interface is difficult... I thought it's very intuitive and simple with highliting errors etc but still it causes many problems
I think your interface is actually very good. Yesterday was the first time I had tried your app (didn't try the old beta) and the only thing I messed up on with my first attempt was I forgot to add the "post blinds" steps.

The one thing I can't seem to work out is how to alter the bet amounts after you have put them in? For example I made a scenario where the SB raised 40 chips for his first action and later (after making a huge sub-tree) wanted to chance that to 30 chips instead - is there any easy way to do this?

Quote:
-speeding up calculations; both monte carlo and evaluatio may be speeded up; one of the main problems is fast 7-card evaluator. Most of them are GPL'ed and we can't use them. Once we get access to really fast evaluator the calculations would be a lot of faster; monte carlo may be fine tuned and speeded up in many ways
You might want to try Steve Brecher's packed hand evaluator. A while back I read a post where somebody had tested all the different hand evaluators for both linear enumeration usage and random access Monte-Carlo usage and Steve Brecher's performed very well (I can't find this post now though...).

Steve Brecher's evaluator, unlike most others, is uncopyrighted:
Quote:
Hold’Em Showdown and its source code are in the public domain (not copyrighted). You are free to give a copy to anyone.
It took me less than 2 hours to tweak his code to the stage where it can be easily switched with the GNU pokersrc evaluator (ie: making sure that 0ULL was "No Hand", implementing some of the 64bit mask operations, renaming alot of the functions and data types, etc, etc).

Juk
09-08-2008 , 10:37 AM
Quote:
The one thing I can't seem to work out is how to alter the bet amounts after you have put them in? For example I made a scenario where the SB raised 40 chips for his first action and later (after making a huge sub-tree) wanted to chance that to 30 chips instead - is there any easy way to do this?
Yes sure. Just highlight the node with this action (ex. "raise 40" , choose 30 in the slider and click bet again. If you substitute the action with same action with different amount the rest of the tree won't be deleted (there is undo/redo anyway and the warning is given so don't worry".

Quote:
You might want to try Steve Brecher's packed hand evaluator. A while back I read a post where somebody had tested all the different hand evaluators for both linear enumeration usage and random access Monte-Carlo usage and Steve Brecher's performed very well (I can't find this post now though...).

Steve Brecher's evaluator, unlike most others, is uncopyrighted:
Thanks much for this info
09-12-2008 , 09:04 AM
hey punter
a long time ago on your pokerazor forums, I suggested adding a hand distribution for each range. Like: how many A's, K's, Q's, J's are in a certain range, and how does the card removal effects of certain boards influence villain's range/hand/our equity. Are you still thinking of adding this?
09-13-2008 , 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Eagles
AVG put up a message "Threat detected, trojan horse" when I d/l'ed this. Is that supposed to happen?
same message here. what about this virus?
09-15-2008 , 02:14 AM
Quote:
same message here. what about this virus?
This is very strange. I have no idea why AVG gives this message as nobody reported to us the problem with other firewalls/antivir. Can you paste exact message you get from AVG and when you get it ? (during installation, after it ?)

      
m