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Old 04-07-2015, 10:02 AM   #176
chasern1
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hey,
Anyone with a macbook pro or intel i5@2.3 GHz can tell me what kind of benchmarks they're getting?

I got a i5@2.3 GHz and 16GB RAM and getting a benchmark of 188,xxx
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:09 AM   #177
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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I got a i5@2.3 GHz and 16GB RAM and getting a benchmark of 188,xxx
Some of our customers are running it on Macbooks pro and it's pretty fast for them via both Parallels and Bootcamp.
If it's really 188 (one hundred eighty eight) seconds something is very wrong. Contact the support!
Asking on the Skype group is I think more likely to yield some answers about benchmark times as I know at least 2 Mac users hang out there.
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Old 04-07-2015, 05:51 PM   #178
Ganesha6
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

My procesor is an i5 2435m with 2 cores (4 threads ) and 8GB RAM. I dont know if it will be worth it to buy piosolver because i have no way to know how long it will take to solve flops.

Im not interested in deep stack pots, but more interested in 30bbs or 3bet where the stasize pot ratio is smaller.
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Old 04-07-2015, 07:09 PM   #179
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

I am afraid it will be going to be slow.
We plan to add the flop feature to free version at some point (to run it on one hard coded flop) but it's very non-top-priority as of today.
I think it's likely this CPU is about 5-6x slower than mine (i7 3770) which would make it 30 minutes per flop even with those shallow stacks.
It seems one poster above had problems with an i5 maybe if we get an exact model we could confirm. The solver is really CPU hungry and memory frequency matters as well (1350 is worse than 1600, lower than 1350 is very slow) as does the cache size.
I would love to give you a better answer here but that's as a good guess as I can make for today. I just don't think it will be a fun experience on that setup
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Old 04-08-2015, 08:53 AM   #180
sanjusto77
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi im´m seriusly considering buy your software but i´m novice with this type of soft and i have a few questions:

- Mi PC is i7@2500 with 4 core (8 threads) and 16 GB of RAM....with this features wich of the versions Basic or Pro you recommended? My idea is not use it to solve situations every day, but i want to solve the 80 or 100 hundres common situations with 100bb (BBvsSB, 3betpots, BTNvsBB,etc...) How much time aproximately it takes to solve a situation like BBvsSB with wide ranges?

- I know you can choose different bet sizes but you can choose no one and allow PIOsolver to suggest the best bet sizes?

- When i finalice the analisys of a tree can i save to my PC and see it when i want? How much space of HDD spend?

Thanks for all

Last edited by sanjusto77; 04-08-2015 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:07 AM   #181
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

>>Mi PC is i7@2500 with 4 core (8 threads) and 16 GB of RAM....with this features wich of the versions Basic or Pro you recommended?

It depends if you use it heavily, for now basic/pro version have memory restrictions to 8/16GB but those will be lifted in the next release. The basic version will be a bit slower on your CPU (about 20-25%) because hyperthreading will not be utilized though.

Quote:
How much time aproximately it takes to solve a situation like BBvsSB with wide ranges?
It depends how close you want it and what exact tree. Usually 5-7 minutes gives a quite good solution on i7 3770. Yours look very comparable (just a big slower) so I would guess something like 7-10 for bigger trees without multiple bet sizes.

Quote:
3betpots
Those are faster because they are shallow.

Quote:
- I know you can choose different bet sizes but you can choose anyone and allow PIOsolver to suggest the best bet sizes?
Well, if you allow for more than one at some points then it will solve and you will see which one is chosen more often. There is currently no feature for PioSOLVER to suggest you which one to choose for tree-building. That will require very serious analysis to make good suggestions.

Quote:
- When i finalice the analisys of a tree can i save to my PC and see it when i want? How much space of HDD spend?
Currently we save the whole trees with all the information so the saves are as big as the tree (several GBs).
Making the saves smaller is top 3 on the to-do so the chances are it's going to be introduced in foresable future.

If you don't intend on scripting and only want an occasional analysis the basic version is more than enough. If you want to solve trees in batches (let's say letting it run overnight), and you want to utilize more than 4 threads then pro version is better.
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:36 PM   #182
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hey, developers.

What about PREFLOP in observed future? Seems your program have unlimited potential and add one more street would make your program even more popular.
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:01 PM   #183
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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What about PREFLOP in observed future?
Pure preflop games - sure, soon, those just need to get connected to the GUI.
Solving from preflop? That will have to wait a bit even though it's my favorite thing to work on. Some of our users already run preflop simuls (say calculating all flops on Will Tipton's subset and summing the results using scripts) but it's still very early and official support for that feature needs to wait till more urgent stuff is done.

At one point it will happen though. We will be solving the whole thing, the question is when
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Old 04-09-2015, 12:47 PM   #184
FREEQONE
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

I'm trying use Trial version and was surprised from simple tree.
We coldcall BB KhJh against 40% open, 25bb deep, on FLOP opponent bet 100% range(as example) because i can't solve it in trial.

Probably it is a bug, i dont know.
When i do "Build Tree", program shows me split TURN range like 33/33/33%, but in my understanding we can't fold never and CREV can prove it.
http://savepic.net/6641210.png

Next, if i do "Build Tree" + "Go" + "Stop", PioViewer show 100% fold. What the hell? What changing?
Pio suggest 95% bet to raiser and it is obviously if we fold 99% of times.
But logical to bet 100% to preflop raiser.
http://savepic.net/6664765.png

Tree building and calc - tab
http://savepic.net/6646332.png

Explain it please. Where i wrong?

p.s. sorry for my english, i'm russian.
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Old 04-09-2015, 01:57 PM   #185
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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When i do "Build Tree", program shows me split TURN range like 33/33/33%
Yes, the tree is built but not yet solved. Every tree starts with equal strategies for all actions.
You can even watch it while it's being solved if you want.

Quote:
Next, if i do "Build Tree" + "Go" + "Stop", PioViewer show 100% fold. What the hell? What changing?
"Go" starts the solver, the tree gets solved then "Stop" stops the solver.

Quote:
Pio suggest 95% bet to raiser and it is obviously if we fold 99% of times.
But logical to bet 100% to preflop raiser.
I am not sure what is "logical" but what the solver shows is optimal

Quote:
Tree building and calc - tab
http://savepic.net/6646332.png
You inserted only one combo for OOP player and quite a strong range for IP player (on this board it has about 55% equity with two streets to play).
If you want something realistic, you need to insert your whole calling range, not only one combo.

Quote:
but in my understanding we can't fold never and CREV can prove it.
I really can't see how CREV could prove anything here. The solver can though - KhJh is a 100% fold on this board if that's the only hand in range.
If you give OOP player a full range (all the hands you call the flop with) then the results will be different. It's really easy to play against someone if you know they have exactly KhJh and you have a lot of top pairs in your range.

Quote:
Explain it please. Where i wrong?
-use the whole range instead of one hand for OOP player (you can for example copy-paste it from CREV)

Other than that, you did nothing wrong, it's just that the way optimal play is surprises you
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Old 04-10-2015, 10:35 PM   #186
u cnat spel
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi punter,

Has the basic solver been updated? I believe it was scheduled for release on the 6th. I have not received any e-mails for download instructions yet.
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Old 04-11-2015, 01:46 AM   #187
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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Has the basic solver been updated? I believe it was scheduled for release on the 6th. I have not received any e-mails for download instructions yet.
Everything got updated 5th-6th April. Either I messed up something or your email ended up in the spam folder. Please contact the support (piosolver@piosolver.com) or pm me with your email address and I will check what went wrong.

Last edited by punter11235; 04-11-2015 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 04-11-2015, 05:19 AM   #188
u cnat spel
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Ah! I was expecting the download link to be in the new e-mail . Now I understand we have our own dropbox download folder from the first e-mail when we signed up.

Thanks!
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Old 04-11-2015, 09:14 AM   #189
sanjusto77
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi I definily buy the Basic version. When i going to make most of the interest trees for me say that it couldn´t be possible because of memory restriction. (8gb)

You say me that in the next release the restriction will be lifted...when is schedule this?

thanks
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Old 04-11-2015, 09:26 AM   #190
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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You say me that in the next release the restriction will be lifted...when is schedule this?
2-3 weeks if everything goes well. Trees with one bet size are 4GB tops, Memory is a problem if you want to add more. Anyway it will be lifted. We wanted to reduce the use on big work stations but there are better ways to achieve that than memory limit.
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Old 04-13-2015, 11:54 AM   #191
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Small update for programmers or would be programmers:

-There is now a plug-in system available for the PioViewer which makes it possible to write plug-ins to extend PioViewer functionality. We plan to develop part of new features as plug-ins with the code being public to make it easier to write your own. If you would like to try those let us know. We also have some ideas for small'ish projects if you need something to get started.
-If you prefer to roll your own GUI/functionality based on our engine there are chances you can get a lot of support from us as well as the source code of the Viewer. We already have several people trying to develop their own things. We give you very liberal license here (basically you can do w/e you please including selling/integrating with other tools etc. as long as the new tool requires our engine to run)

The engine is fully programmable and designed to make tools based on it easy. If you are serious about it, we are willing to add features specific to your needs.
Some examples/docs for the plug-ins will be published in near future.

Contact us!
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Old 04-13-2015, 12:02 PM   #192
Danshiel350
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi. I'm just a lowly free user for now. HAs the update happened yet?
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:29 PM   #193
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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Hi. I'm just a lowly free user for now. HAs the update happened yet?
It did!
As we are not collecting emails (unless you voluntarily register by adding free version to the cart and "buy it") we couldn't let every free user know. You can download the updated version here: http://piosolver.com/collections/fro...piosolver-free (there is a download link in the description).

You can read about it here:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...6&postcount=58

tldr is that the free version solves turns/rivers with multiple bet sizes now.
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Old 04-13-2015, 09:41 PM   #194
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Where does the name PioSolver come from? Does the word Pio have any sort of special significance?
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Old 04-14-2015, 08:46 AM   #195
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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Where does the name PioSolver come from? Does the word Pio have any sort of special significance?
I have long tradition of naming side projects in certain ways with friends and the name was left unchanged from the time it wasn't public yet.
P is for poker, i is for an interface, o is for optimal.
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:30 PM   #196
marakesh
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Could you please order the following in terms of PIOsolver performance benefits:

CPU clock speed
CPU MB cache
CPU number of cores
RAM number of channels
RAM Mhz speed
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Old 04-15-2015, 06:29 PM   #197
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
CPU clock speed
CPU MB cache
CPU number of cores
RAM number of channels
RAM Mhz speed
It's a tough question. The memory is the bottleneck now but I think it's more about cache than main RAM. From the benchmarks I've seen on various CPUs the order would be:

CPU cache
CPU clock speed/number of cores
RAM speed (no idea about number of channels because DDR4 isn't too popular yet)

If you pm me/contact me on Skype I can try gathering some benchmarks for you if you are considering buying a new CPU.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:00 AM   #198
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

nice product! messed around with free version last night and this morning and just put my order in for the basic version.

really glad you included limit betting structure - I play a lot of live poker and never had the chance to put in lots of hours online at LHE or other limit games. I think this will speed my learning up quite a bit.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:50 AM   #199
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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really glad you included limit betting structure - I play a lot of live poker and never had the chance to put in lots of hours online at LHE or other limit games. I think this will speed my learning up quite a bit.
Unfortunately that will be a bit of disappointment for you because limit trees are huge (if you want the full one with cap of 4 it's 25GB).
While the memory restrictions for basic/pro versions will be completely lifted in the next release those huge trees are still not very fun to run unless you can leave it for an hour or so and have 32GB in the first place.
We will optimize most of the memory away at one point but it's not a top priority for right now.
I think you can have a lot of fun with it as it is though but solving limit Alberta style has to wait for now
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Old 04-16-2015, 02:07 PM   #200
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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Originally Posted by punter11235 View Post
Unfortunately that will be a bit of disappointment for you because limit trees are huge (if you want the full one with cap of 4 it's 25GB).
While the memory restrictions for basic/pro versions will be completely lifted in the next release those huge trees are still not very fun to run unless you can leave it for an hour or so and have 32GB in the first place.
We will optimize most of the memory away at one point but it's not a top priority for right now.
I think you can have a lot of fun with it as it is though but solving limit Alberta style has to wait for now
ah that's too bad. I have a i7-4700MQ @ 2.4GHz and 16GB RAM. seems like it's pretty quick for NL turns and rivers in the free version.

how much would reducing the cap to 2 or 3 bets help? it's not ideal but I still think I could get decent approximations of good strategies.

I know I probably missed this somewhere in the thread, but what % pot exploitability do you recommend letting the solver calculate? I just ran a tree for a LHE cap 3 turn situation and it only took about a minute to get down to 0.0225%.
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