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Old 09-14-2020, 04:15 AM   #6576
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
I was running a script, had about half of it done and now when I run it, its starting again, all the sims are still in the folder, why could that be?
No idea, are you sure it's the same script?
If yes, please pm me on Discord we can go over it. I will need to see your screen or at least some screenshot though + the script in question.

Quote:
All is good, punter just explained that upper right numbers are average frequency across all the runouts but i was calculating them only from 7c runout
Answering your other questions from Discord: if you want to show "real frequency" (what really happens because of card removal effect from the opponent's range) in big colored rectangles for "fold", "check", "bet" you need check:

Tools->Configuration->Data presentation on 13x13 grid-> [x] show total strategy as real frequency
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:16 PM   #6577
Lestat
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

I'm not sure if people use Pio to solve for LHE, but was wondering if anyone would know how..

I see a limit tab and am wondering if it's best to use that or just set bet sizes by chips (for Ex: If playing 100/200 LHE then chips set at 100c for pre-flop and flop and 200c for turn and river)

I can't seem to get OOP to check while allowing IP to bet or check without running out of memory (I have 16 GB of RAM). My only option is to check the box that forces OOP to check AND IP to bet. This obviously isn't ideal in steal situations from the button where 100% cbet would be disastrous and checking some flops is optimal

Obviously, I'm very new to the software and would appreciate any help. I'm using mainly for LHE and am wondering if it was a mistake purchase if PioSOLVER is mostly geared towards NLH

P.S. I was also getting a "not enough memory" error even with force OOP check/IP bet, but solved that by reducing the effective stack size. But while I'm fine with forcing OOP to check 100%, I really do need to allow IP to have a mixed betting strategy

Would greatly appreciate any help!

Thanks,
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:44 PM   #6578
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hello, I am considering buying this program. The base price is relatively expensive, is there a free trial before one makes a purchase? Thank you.
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Old 09-17-2020, 07:26 AM   #6579
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
I see a limit tab and am wondering if it's best to use that or just set bet sizes by chips (for Ex: If playing 100/200 LHE then chips set at 100c for pre-flop and flop and 200c for turn and river)
We've already solved it by email but let me answer here as well.
Limit tab is obsolete. The main interface is more powerful and allows for easier adding/removing lines which is important in limit as the trees are big.
It's important to use a cap as well (and choose a limit version for cap, not NL version which rounds the bet to an all-in).
Quote:
I can't seem to get OOP to check while allowing IP to bet or check without running out of memory (I have 16 GB of RAM). My only option is to check the box that forces OOP to check AND IP to bet. This obviously isn't ideal in steal situations from the button where 100% cbet would be disastrous and checking some flops is optimal
Full limit Holdem tree with all the options, cap of 4 bets and wide HU ranges is around 13GB. It's possible to build on a computer with 16GB of RAM but it needs to be a clean system.
You can omit OOP's bet on the flop by just leaving the bet sizing option for OOP on the flop empty.

Quote:
Hello, I am considering buying this program. The base price is relatively expensive, is there a free trial before one makes a purchase? Thank you.
We don't have trials but we do have a free version that solves on flop (Qs Jh 2h) as well as any turn/river tree. You can download it by following the instructions here:
https://www.piosolver.com/pages/pio-starting-page
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Old 09-17-2020, 12:23 PM   #6580
EggsMcBluffin
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

What's the technical reason why PIO by default reports EV as "EV + current(chips invested by current player)"?


My understanding of EV is "average chips won/lost in terminal nodes of the tree".

If I have a combo that wins on average 50 chips when I bet 100 chips, what's the formula that will output a value of 50 for the EV of that b100c action?
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Old 09-17-2020, 12:58 PM   #6581
EggsMcBluffin
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Also how do I change the gradient that compares EV of two actions that is triggered by tiny button with '<' in main view?
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Old 09-17-2020, 07:56 PM   #6582
WorldResident
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hey guys. Hope you can answer a difficult question for me.

The Kuba subsets are supposed to approximate EV over all flops for the purpose of preflop solving. I am looking for a subset that covers all different flops strategically.

Do you have one or can you help me to figure out a method myself? Thank you in advance.
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Old 09-18-2020, 03:49 AM   #6583
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
What's the technical reason why PIO by default reports EV as "EV + current(chips invested by current player)"?
It's nothing technical. We do that because people are used to seeing EVs at given point and not for the whole line.
For example when it goes bet 100/call on the flop and then bet/fold on the turn most players expect EV of the last fold to be 0 while the solver reports -100 internally (because that's the result for the whole hand).

Quote:
If I have a combo that wins on average 50 chips when I bet 100 chips, what's the formula that will output a value of 50 for the EV of that b100c action?
That's the default formula. It will just not take into account what you already invested.
Quote:
Also how do I change the gradient that compares EV of two actions that is triggered by tiny button with '<' in main view?
Do you mean the colors?

Quote:
The Kuba subsets are supposed to approximate EV over all flops for the purpose of preflop solving. I am looking for a subset that covers all different flops strategically.

Do you have one or can you help me to figure out a method myself? Thank you in advance.
Yes, those subsets are not good for the purpose. We don't really have one you are looking for. We think it's a job for coaches and more competent players than we are.
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:11 AM   #6584
EggsMcBluffin
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

More importantly I want to adjust the sensitivity of the gradient.
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Old 09-18-2020, 08:27 PM   #6585
sirin
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Sorry if this is a stupid question.

Lets say I run scripts from the 184 subset with weights, but I run A high flops, saved to one folder. Then K high flops, saved to another, etc.

Then in the future I combine all these back into one big folder. I will still be able to run aggregate reports that are accurate right?

I presume so but just in case it makes a difference to the weighting if I run them at different times or something.

Probably a stupid question but I just want to make sure before I run a load of SRP sims that I hope to use for aggregate reports at some stage in the future but not now.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 09-19-2020, 02:56 PM   #6586
z3ffrin
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hello,

I recently made a purchase for the PioSolver Basic on 18/09. I received a confirmation email saying that the process is manaul and will need to wait 24 hours. I have waited the alloted time and have yet to hear back.

I have also sent a email to support asking for an update. Can I please get some support?

Thanks
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Old 09-20-2020, 12:14 PM   #6587
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

punter11235, thank you for linking me to the free version. This program looks rather complicated. Could someone point me in the direction of a good starting place?
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Old 09-20-2020, 01:21 PM   #6588
cwar
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

When I put in my flop bet size % on a run with rake included. Is rake taken out before the flop bet size % is calculated?

For example:
I bet 30% on flop with 5% rake
$100 pot = $30 bet size
OR
$100 pot = $28.5 bet size
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Old 09-20-2020, 07:31 PM   #6589
NoLife
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

How I select the number of threads of my cpu that Pio will use? I have 4 and I want to use only 3
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:00 AM   #6590
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
More importantly I want to adjust the sensitivity of the gradient.
I am not sure if it's doable right now. The best way is to send us an email to support@piosolver.com (feel free to just reference your posts by linking or copy-pasting your questions) and then I will forward it to Kuba (who develops PioViewer).

Quote:
Lets say I run scripts from the 184 subset with weights, but I run A high flops, saved to one folder. Then K high flops, saved to another, etc.

Then in the future I combine all these back into one big folder. I will still be able to run aggregate reports that are accurate right?
For aggregation reports to be accurate you need weights coming from one subset of flops. If you just split the 184 flop script to A-high, K-high, Q-high and then combine the saves then you will have the same results as if you would run all the flops at once and save to the same folder. The weights are stored in the script itself so as long as:

-all the flops from the script are solved
-the script is in the same folder

the aggregation reports produces correct results.

Quote:
I recently made a purchase for the PioSolver Basic on 18/09. I received a confirmation email saying that the process is manaul and will need to wait 24 hours. I have waited the alloted time and have yet to hear back.

I have also sent a email to support asking for an update. Can I please get some support?
There was a period of about 30 hours when I wasn't in front of my computer to run the scripts during the weekend so there were slight delays. All the licenses are sent now and all the emails answered (well, the ones from yesterday).
If you still haven't got your license please pm me here.

Quote:
punter11235, thank you for linking me to the free version. This program looks rather complicated. Could someone point me in the direction of a good starting place?
A good starting place is our quick start guide, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqGQoQKbCB8

Quote:
When I put in my flop bet size % on a run with rake included. Is rake taken out before the flop bet size % is calculated?
It isn't. The rake is taken out at the end of the hand.

Quote:
How I select the number of threads of my cpu that Pio will use? I have 4 and I want to use only 3
Tools->Configuration->Behavior
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Old 09-21-2020, 03:45 PM   #6591
pokerbratwurst
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Online Veteran View Post
punter11235, thank you for linking me to the free version. This program looks rather complicated. Could someone point me in the direction of a good starting place?
Try starting with the videos listed here on the Pio site: https://www.piosolver.com/pages/faq-videos.

There are also more than a few good introductory videos on YouTube by Aze Gallo, AlvinTeachesPoker, PokerNerve, Neuron, Finding Equilibrium, and, of course, PioSOLVER.

Hope this helps.
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Old 09-21-2020, 03:49 PM   #6592
pokerbratwurst
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Punter answers 6 questions in the time it takes me to type one answer.
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Old 09-21-2020, 06:10 PM   #6593
Okra Winfrey
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Punter can you read this quote from a post in the theory forum and explain if it makes sense? Especially the bolded part?

How does the solver make sure EVs of multiple actions in a mixed strategy are exactly equal across such a big tree with so many nodes?

Quote:
It's worth noting that while GTO will always choose the highest EV action for each combo, solvers won't necessarily. Solvers are only approximating GTO, and their EVs will have some margin of error. Since the EV's will never be exact, they would never be able to employ mixed strategies if they always chose the option that had .01 greater +EV or whatever. I'm not sure how solvers choose frequencies, but it's probably in a way that minimizes the EV of the maximally exploitative counterstrategy or something like that, rather than maximize the EV against the last iteration's strategy. However, I'm speculating here.
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Old 09-22-2020, 06:18 AM   #6594
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Punter can you read this quote from a post in the theory forum and explain if it makes sense? Especially the bolded part?
It's more or less correct.
EVs are exact but they are not calculated against equilibrium (as that is unknown during solving) but against current solution. While the details depends on the algorithm the way it works is that at every step the solver adjusts frequencies in the direction of higher EV slightly. Hands which are mixed after many iterations likely got there by back and forth adjustments (sometimes during solving raise was better than a bet, sometimes bet than a raise) an they will most likely be mixed in the equilibrium as well.

When you look at EVs you see those after n steps of the solver running. It's likely that if you run it for n+1 steps or n+5 steps the EVs would be slightly different, maybe in other direction. Only in perfect equilibrium (exploitability exactly 0) mixed actions have the same EV everywhere. This is by definition: if there is a mixed action with different EVs then it's possible to improve the strategy against current solution and thus it's not aperfect equilibrium.

Please notice that it doesn't mean that you can improve the solution by just making that 0.00/0.01 EV strategy a 100% one (choosing 0.01 action) because that would make the exploitability higher. It's important point to understand: while it would be possible to increase EV of one player by making all currently mixed actions 100% actions choosing the highest EV it would make the overall solutoin terrible (in terms of exploitability).

One last point: EV being different for mixed actions is more of a measure of imperfection of the solution at many different places, not necessarily at the point of the decision. You could say: "look, it's a 50%/50% call/fold but the call is +0.2bb" and that means "the solution is still far away from where we want it to be" rather than "let's call more here".
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Old 09-24-2020, 03:01 AM   #6595
Kutillo
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hello,

I am Mac user and consider purchasing Pio.
I plan to run it on a virtual machine through Parallels Desktop.
Is it possible to deactivate an ongoing licence on a computer and reactivate it on another machine ? It's important for me as I might remove the virtual machine several times a year.
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Old 09-24-2020, 04:24 AM   #6596
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
I am Mac user and consider purchasing Pio.
I plan to run it on a virtual machine through Parallels Desktop.
Is it possible to deactivate an ongoing licence on a computer and reactivate it on another machine ? It's important for me as I might remove the virtual machine several times a year.
It's a bit problematic with basci/pro licenses as they have limited number of deactivations. We will extend the limit for you as long as we have no reason to think the license is abused (used as floating license and moved between computers on regular basis) but it will require some email back and forth.
Short answer: it won't be the most convenient but should work fine.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:32 AM   #6597
Okra Winfrey
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

What is the definition of Maximum Exploitability Score ("MES")?
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Old 09-25-2020, 05:35 PM   #6598
centgas
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

After running scripts overnight, I've found the SRP hands (or solutions/trees whatever you call them) are taking several minutes to open, is this normal and is there anyway of improving it?

Thanks
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:55 PM   #6599
paulohpmoraes
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hello, I noticed that when I do node lock on the pio solver I can already compare the EV's without having to run the spot again.

I would like to know the difference between doing node lock in pio solver in this way and doing node lock and putting the program to run the spot again.

Is it viable to use this method to create cbet or check range strategies? What is the "acceptable" maximum EV loss to make just one play with the full range?
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Old 09-26-2020, 04:44 PM   #6600
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
What is the definition of Maximum Exploitability Score ("MES")?
EV that perfect adversary (one who knows the whole opponent's strategy and adjust perfectly to maximally exploit it) can get against current solution.
MES_IP + MES_OOP >= EV_IP + EV_OOP

and:

(MES_IP + MES_OOP - EV_IP - EV_OOP) / 2 = exploitability
Quote:
After running scripts overnight, I've found the SRP hands (or solutions/trees whatever you call them) are taking several minutes to open, is this normal and is there anyway of improving it?
Normal for big full save trees (not recommended). Not normal for small saves, in case on those loading should be almost instant.
Quote:
Hello, I noticed that when I do node lock on the pio solver I can already compare the EV's without having to run the spot again.
You can although the play in all other nodes is still according to previous solution so no adjustments were done.
Quote:
I would like to know the difference between doing node lock in pio solver in this way and doing node lock and putting the program to run the spot again.
When you run the solver again after the node-lock it will adjusts strategies in all other nodes to be optimal assuming the node-locked strategy can't be changed.

Quote:
Is it viable to use this method to create cbet or check range strategies? What is the "acceptable" maximum EV loss to make just one play with the full range?
I am sorry, I am not sure what you are asking here. I will need more details about what you intend to do.
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